Status: FED
· Rabbit Rillettes + Beef Tartare + Bread + Cornichons
· Lamb & Parsnip
· Cassoulet
· Coffee at the end of the meal (Well, I offered because I know he likes it. But I didn’t have decaf)
· Lemon-lime cream tart (a la Matt Galloway)
Rillettes Step 1: Use great-grandfather Herschel's cleaver to separate rabbit.
Guest #109.1: Adam Gopnik
Occupation: staff writer, New Yorker, author of really smart books, most recently The Table Comes First, lecturer, big brain in regular sized body
Sent thank-you: email
Sent thank-you: email
Guest #109.2: Matt Galloway
Occupation: host, CBC’s Metro Morning
Contributed: lemon curd pie (seriously delicious), Josef Chromy 2009 Pinot Noir
Sent thank-you: email
Guest #109.3: Mark Medley
Occupation: books editor, National Post, Swedish Chef advocate
Contributed: E. Guigal 2007 Cotes Du Rhone, Fuller’s 2011 Vintage Ale
Sent thank-you: email
Guest #109.4: Christine Loureiro
Occupation: deputy Life editor, Toronto Star
Contributed: Chambolle-Musigny 2007 Burgundy
Sent thank-you: email
Guest #109.5: Sheila Kay
Occupation: deputy director of publicity, Random House
Contributed: Toasted Head 2010 Chardonnay, Louis Jadot 2010 Beaujolais
Sent thank-you: email 
Rillettes Step 2: Rabbits like baths.
2. THE INTERNAL MONOLOGUE
MEDLEY
I imagine that blackmail is a dying art. We live our life online so much now. I can’t think of anything that isn’t already out there.
MEDLEY
I imagine that blackmail is a dying art. We live our life online so much now. I can’t think of anything that isn’t already out there.
GALLOWAY
No, people still have lots of secrets. There is a lot of information that people still hold close. And they try really hard to keep it close, even if they live a very public life. Everybody draws that line.
No, people still have lots of secrets. There is a lot of information that people still hold close. And they try really hard to keep it close, even if they live a very public life. Everybody draws that line.
MINTZ
You talk to people all the time, and you see them take that little pause, before they answer …
GALLOWAY
You can tell how much people are going to give. And you can tell, even if you work hard, what people are still holding back. There’s a reserve. It’s important. I mean, I have a reserve. You have a reserve.
You can tell how much people are going to give. And you can tell, even if you work hard, what people are still holding back. There’s a reserve. It’s important. I mean, I have a reserve. You have a reserve.
MINTZ
I’m an open book. Except that hobo that I killed.
I’m an open book. Except that hobo that I killed.
KAY
Have any of you ever been shocked by what someone told you? Like some revalation that you absolutely weren’t expecting?
Have any of you ever been shocked by what someone told you? Like some revalation that you absolutely weren’t expecting?
GALLOWAY
Oh yeah. Absolutely, yeah.
Oh yeah. Absolutely, yeah.
MEDLEY
Off the record, though. I find, after the interview, when I turn the recorder off, is when people actually open up to me. Or at parties, my rule is, if I have a drink, it’s off the record. So even last week at the Gillers, people were saying things.
Off the record, though. I find, after the interview, when I turn the recorder off, is when people actually open up to me. Or at parties, my rule is, if I have a drink, it’s off the record. So even last week at the Gillers, people were saying things.
GOPNIK
The one question I’ve always found that opens people up, after you’ve had a good conversation, is to say to someone, what have you failed at? What is the one thing you’ve always wanted to do and you’ve never been able to succeed at. And almost without exception, in fact without exception, whoever it is, will tell you. It will be very revealing. And you’d think that people would clam up about that. But on the contrary, it burns inside them sufficiently. And it isn’t humiliating in any way, because they recognize that it’s part of their aspirations.
The one question I’ve always found that opens people up, after you’ve had a good conversation, is to say to someone, what have you failed at? What is the one thing you’ve always wanted to do and you’ve never been able to succeed at. And almost without exception, in fact without exception, whoever it is, will tell you. It will be very revealing. And you’d think that people would clam up about that. But on the contrary, it burns inside them sufficiently. And it isn’t humiliating in any way, because they recognize that it’s part of their aspirations.
MINTZ
To not answer it is to be completely dishonest with themselves.
To not answer it is to be completely dishonest with themselves.
GALLOWAY
And aspiration is the key. People do need something to shoot towards.
And aspiration is the key. People do need something to shoot towards.
GOPNIK
That’s right, Corey. That’s also part of it. Since it’s obviously true, that there’s something that you aspired to that you haven’t succeeded at …
That’s right, Corey. That’s also part of it. Since it’s obviously true, that there’s something that you aspired to that you haven’t succeeded at …
MINTZ
Because as soon as you ask, that answer comes from wherever they’ve pushed it. It comes bubbling up to the surface.
Because as soon as you ask, that answer comes from wherever they’ve pushed it. It comes bubbling up to the surface.
KAY
And ‘can I say this?’
GALLOWAY
Of course you are.
And ‘can I say this?’
GALLOWAY
Of course you are.
MINTZ
Because you’ve asked an intellectually interesting question. So yes, I never became a banker.
Because you’ve asked an intellectually interesting question. So yes, I never became a banker.
GOPNIK
Or whatever …
Or whatever …
MINTZ
Whatever your personal disappointment is.
Whatever your personal disappointment is.
MEDLEY
So as a journalist, is that one of your stock questions?
So as a journalist, is that one of your stock questions?
GOPNIK
I’m such a bad journalist, I don’t really have stock questions. But to the degree that I’ve learned anything, apart from the fact that silence is very powerful, that …
I’m such a bad journalist, I don’t really have stock questions. But to the degree that I’ve learned anything, apart from the fact that silence is very powerful, that …
MEDLEY
That you let them continue.
That you let them continue.
GOPNIK
Right. It’s a weird thing. When I first started as a reporter. I was writing Talk of the Town, in the old days, when it was anonymous and pretty long. And I was thrown in there just to be a reporter. And I was stunned to discover that people want to tell their stories. And it’s sort of the most basic thing. You live with it every day. But there are moments when you want to say to someone, this is unwise for you.
Right. It’s a weird thing. When I first started as a reporter. I was writing Talk of the Town, in the old days, when it was anonymous and pretty long. And I was thrown in there just to be a reporter. And I was stunned to discover that people want to tell their stories. And it’s sort of the most basic thing. You live with it every day. But there are moments when you want to say to someone, this is unwise for you.
GALLOWAY
‘Are you sure?’
‘Are you sure?’
GOPNIK
That’s right. Haven’t you had that experience?
GALLOWAY
Well it happens all the time. But at the same time, even the most “insignificant” person has something that they want to say, has an ego that they want to be burnished up. And they do want to tell a story. People always say, ‘What’s the most interesting interview you’ve done? Who’s the most interesting person you’ve talked to? And it’s not Famous-Person-who’s-rolled-in. It’s someone who tells you a story that is their own story that kind of leaves you pinned to the seat. As they say in radio, it makes you unable to get out of the car. They don’t need to be celebrated individuals. They don’t need to be famous people. They need to be somebody who has something to say. And you’re always amazed that people are telling you what they’re telling you. Two weeks ago, we were talking to this woman — she has an art exhibition on mental illness — who told us this incredible harrowing story, of how she went to university, started drinking, became an alcoholic, alienated all of her friends, her family, went to the absolute pit and pulled herself back up. She’d never met me. With a million people listening, sits and tells us this story. I wouldn’t do that. But it’s part of what she needs to do. And it’s incredible to hear it.
That’s right. Haven’t you had that experience?
GALLOWAY
Well it happens all the time. But at the same time, even the most “insignificant” person has something that they want to say, has an ego that they want to be burnished up. And they do want to tell a story. People always say, ‘What’s the most interesting interview you’ve done? Who’s the most interesting person you’ve talked to? And it’s not Famous-Person-who’s-rolled-in. It’s someone who tells you a story that is their own story that kind of leaves you pinned to the seat. As they say in radio, it makes you unable to get out of the car. They don’t need to be celebrated individuals. They don’t need to be famous people. They need to be somebody who has something to say. And you’re always amazed that people are telling you what they’re telling you. Two weeks ago, we were talking to this woman — she has an art exhibition on mental illness — who told us this incredible harrowing story, of how she went to university, started drinking, became an alcoholic, alienated all of her friends, her family, went to the absolute pit and pulled herself back up. She’d never met me. With a million people listening, sits and tells us this story. I wouldn’t do that. But it’s part of what she needs to do. And it’s incredible to hear it.
I ended up using a recipe from Stephane Reynaud. But here is the elvish script that Brando texted me.
GOPNIK
I think it’s true, too, that all of us have a kind of inner monologue running through our heads and bodies at every moment, right, of sort of self-justification, self-explication. And the key, in interviewing, is to tap into it. Because it’s different from the practiced things that you learn to say. I remember once, I was in Paris, a friend of ours was in a café with Francis Ford Coppola, one of my heroes. And for complicated reasons, she, the friend, went off with someone else. And I was left alone with Francis Ford Coppola. Oh my god, I’m sitting here with Francis Ford Fucking Coppola. What do you say to him? I said to him, for Christmas, we’d gotten our ten favourite on, I think it was on cassette still, then. I said, three of them were yours. He said, ‘oh, which three?’ I said, The Conversation and the two Godfather films. And he looked a little disappointed.
I think it’s true, too, that all of us have a kind of inner monologue running through our heads and bodies at every moment, right, of sort of self-justification, self-explication. And the key, in interviewing, is to tap into it. Because it’s different from the practiced things that you learn to say. I remember once, I was in Paris, a friend of ours was in a café with Francis Ford Coppola, one of my heroes. And for complicated reasons, she, the friend, went off with someone else. And I was left alone with Francis Ford Coppola. Oh my god, I’m sitting here with Francis Ford Fucking Coppola. What do you say to him? I said to him, for Christmas, we’d gotten our ten favourite on, I think it was on cassette still, then. I said, three of them were yours. He said, ‘oh, which three?’ I said, The Conversation and the two Godfather films. And he looked a little disappointed.
MINTZ
He wanted to hear One From The Heart?
He wanted to hear One From The Heart?
GOPNIK
He said, ‘The truth is, I always wanted to make small films. And I never wanted to do anything except make small films. And the Godfather just took me in a certain direction where I had to make big films. And Godfather 2 was originally meant to be a small film about father and son, in the same moment in their life. And I wrote it that way.’ He had this whole inner monologue of confusion. Where did I take this turn that turned me from the sensitive and intelligent artist that I am, to this icon of a certain kind of film-making. And it was like, you could have tip-toed away, because it was that intense. And I think that’s true of everyone. I mean, Coppola is a great man, who has since stopped making big movies and now he just makes small movies, which correspond to his original ambition. And wine. But I think that’s always true. And if there’s a way to get somebody. It’s like fracking. If you can drill and fracture, then you can get whatever the inner monologue is.
He said, ‘The truth is, I always wanted to make small films. And I never wanted to do anything except make small films. And the Godfather just took me in a certain direction where I had to make big films. And Godfather 2 was originally meant to be a small film about father and son, in the same moment in their life. And I wrote it that way.’ He had this whole inner monologue of confusion. Where did I take this turn that turned me from the sensitive and intelligent artist that I am, to this icon of a certain kind of film-making. And it was like, you could have tip-toed away, because it was that intense. And I think that’s true of everyone. I mean, Coppola is a great man, who has since stopped making big movies and now he just makes small movies, which correspond to his original ambition. And wine. But I think that’s always true. And if there’s a way to get somebody. It’s like fracking. If you can drill and fracture, then you can get whatever the inner monologue is.
GALLOWAY
But there are a lot of variables in that. It’s space, it’s time, where you’re having the conversation, the atmosphere.
But there are a lot of variables in that. It’s space, it’s time, where you’re having the conversation, the atmosphere.
GOPNIK
It was a nice café. We were just chatting.
It was a nice café. We were just chatting.
GALLOWAY
But that all filters in to where you were able to get that information out of. If you’re doing it on the record in our business, you have to be in a decent room. And we’ve worked to figure out a space in our room, in our studio, where we can actually have conversations that people will feel comfortable in, and it doesn’t feel hostile. Even if it’s the mayor or somebody like that, somebody who you’re asking tough questions to, where they’ll feel that they’re in a welcoming space. And they sort of lose themselves in conversation.
But that all filters in to where you were able to get that information out of. If you’re doing it on the record in our business, you have to be in a decent room. And we’ve worked to figure out a space in our room, in our studio, where we can actually have conversations that people will feel comfortable in, and it doesn’t feel hostile. Even if it’s the mayor or somebody like that, somebody who you’re asking tough questions to, where they’ll feel that they’re in a welcoming space. And they sort of lose themselves in conversation.
You should move your studio up here.
Rillettes Step 3: spend forevs separating rabbit confit (butcher's tip: cool and then paddle it in the KitchenAid)
GLADWELLIAN GRAVITY
GOPNIK
Matt, I must ask you this. Have you ever met Malcolm Gladwell?
Matt, I must ask you this. Have you ever met Malcolm Gladwell?
GALLOWAY
At the Gillers, we had a long chat. Two weeks ago. Had a great chat with him.
At the Gillers, we had a long chat. Two weeks ago. Had a great chat with him.
GOPNIK
Were you struck by this? Because it’s something that struck me. You and Malcolm have exactly the same specific gravity.
Were you struck by this? Because it’s something that struck me. You and Malcolm have exactly the same specific gravity.
GALLOWAY
That’s interesting.
That’s interesting.
GOPNIK
Positively eerie.
Positively eerie.
GALLOWAY
His sister said that.
His sister said that.
GOPNIK
Did she? And it’s not simply Canadian background and ethnic background and all that. Your specific gravity and aura is eerily alike. When we sat down to talk, it was like talking to Malcolm.
MINTZ
How do you define gravity?
Did she? And it’s not simply Canadian background and ethnic background and all that. Your specific gravity and aura is eerily alike. When we sat down to talk, it was like talking to Malcolm.
MINTZ
How do you define gravity?
GALLOWAY
Yeah.
Yeah.
GOPNIK
You know how it is that every element on the periodic table has a specific gravity? I don’t know if I could itemize it, but the first time I met Matt it was really weird. He’s just like Malcolm. The voice …
GALLOWAY
That’s interesting. It’s very nice. Uhm … he’s wonderful. He cracks me up. I arrived early and we sat and talked for half an hour about 40 different things in 30 minutes. I like the way his mind works, the speed at which he draws connections between things.
That’s interesting. It’s very nice. Uhm … he’s wonderful. He cracks me up. I arrived early and we sat and talked for half an hour about 40 different things in 30 minutes. I like the way his mind works, the speed at which he draws connections between things.
GOPNIK
He’s amazing. In our family we call him “Not that you don’t, dad, Malcolm”. My children adore him. He’s their favourite dinner guest. Whenever Malcolm leaves after dinner, sometimes we’ll bump into him when we’re traveling, my children say, ‘Malcolm is just so interesting. He always finds the right story to explain. Not that you don’t, dad.’
He’s amazing. In our family we call him “Not that you don’t, dad, Malcolm”. My children adore him. He’s their favourite dinner guest. Whenever Malcolm leaves after dinner, sometimes we’ll bump into him when we’re traveling, my children say, ‘Malcolm is just so interesting. He always finds the right story to explain. Not that you don’t, dad.’
Rillettes Step 4: Store for a couple days. Like chili, it really does taste better once the flavours have mingled.
MINTZ
Does he have that capacity that fictional characters do, to begin what seems like a rambling anecdote at first, that perfectly suits the lesson or metaphor? Police chiefs in movies are able to start this story that seems rambling that by the end of it beautifully illustrates that point. Is he like that?
GOPNIK
Malcolm is also the master of the coercive Canadian right. You know this? That is, Canadians have a habit — my sister does it a lot too, but Malcolm is the master — of appending ‘right’ to a sentence where you’re making a proposition that is extremely contentious and even dubious. By appending ‘right’ to it you’ve claimed the ascent because no Canadian wants to say no.
Does he have that capacity that fictional characters do, to begin what seems like a rambling anecdote at first, that perfectly suits the lesson or metaphor? Police chiefs in movies are able to start this story that seems rambling that by the end of it beautifully illustrates that point. Is he like that?
GOPNIK
Malcolm is also the master of the coercive Canadian right. You know this? That is, Canadians have a habit — my sister does it a lot too, but Malcolm is the master — of appending ‘right’ to a sentence where you’re making a proposition that is extremely contentious and even dubious. By appending ‘right’ to it you’ve claimed the ascent because no Canadian wants to say no.
GALLOWAY
No.
No.
GOPNIK
So you say, ‘It’s obvious, isn’t it, that the first impression we have of someone is always the one that dominates our perception, right?’ Or, ‘It’s apparent that anything we do in life is dominated by the thing we first experienced at six and a half. That’s the key year in our life, right?’ So you’re swept away.
So you say, ‘It’s obvious, isn’t it, that the first impression we have of someone is always the one that dominates our perception, right?’ Or, ‘It’s apparent that anything we do in life is dominated by the thing we first experienced at six and a half. That’s the key year in our life, right?’ So you’re swept away.
GALLOWAY
He’s won already.
He’s won already.
GOPNIK
And it’s a Canadianism. You don’t find it outside. Because Canadians are very polite.
And it’s a Canadianism. You don’t find it outside. Because Canadians are very polite.
CASSOULET
GOPNIK
GOPNIK
It was regarded, when it came into Paris for the first time, because it’s not a Parisian dish. It’s a southwestern dish. It was regarded as extremely exotic, like couscous. People wrote about it, not as part of the natural, normal run of things.
Do you know whose favourite dish cassoulet was? Orson Welles.
MINTZ
It showed.
It showed.
GOPNIK
Yes, exactly. And his favourite was, there was a restaurant called Au Trou Gascon that was run by a guy named Alain Dutournier. He now has a three star or two star on the Rue Royal called Carré des Feuillants. But this other place was more famous. And that’s where Welles would go for his cassoulet. This is in Dutournier’s memoirs.
Yes, exactly. And his favourite was, there was a restaurant called Au Trou Gascon that was run by a guy named Alain Dutournier. He now has a three star or two star on the Rue Royal called Carré des Feuillants. But this other place was more famous. And that’s where Welles would go for his cassoulet. This is in Dutournier’s memoirs.
Would it be terrible, Corey, if I asked for a little mustard?
Did not need a whole tenderloin. Because it was cryo-vacced, I didn't know until the last minute that I had to clean it.
Leftover tartare became a very good burger.
Minus the bun.
RESTAURANTS SUCK
MEDLEY
So do you go crazy trying to keep up with New York’s restaurant scene?
So do you go crazy trying to keep up with New York’s restaurant scene?
GOPNIK
No. I don’t even try to. I’m totally divorced from it. I cook at home because I have kids in school. They have to be asleep by, or, you imagine they’ll be asleep by 10, o’clock, right? And most of the times, the depressing thing about it, is you have an obligation. So it’s not like you’re saying, let’s go eat at someplace we love. It’s just that …
MEDLEY
You don’t get to pick.
You don’t get to pick.
GOPNIK
You don’t get to pick.
You don’t get to pick.
GALLOWAY
That’s really reassuring. Because again, the assumption would be that you go out all the time. To say that you go out very rarely. We rarely go out to eat dinner, in part because of my hours. But in part because we have a big, huge kitchen. We love to cook. I have a wine cellar. I love to be in my space. We’ll have people over rather than eating out somewhere.
That’s really reassuring. Because again, the assumption would be that you go out all the time. To say that you go out very rarely. We rarely go out to eat dinner, in part because of my hours. But in part because we have a big, huge kitchen. We love to cook. I have a wine cellar. I love to be in my space. We’ll have people over rather than eating out somewhere.
GOPNIK
We almost never go out. And it’s not a reverse snobbery. We don’t have very much occasion to do it.
We almost never go out. And it’s not a reverse snobbery. We don’t have very much occasion to do it.
GALLOWAY
And you also don’t want to be … let down, almost?
GOPNIK
Exactly.
And you also don’t want to be … let down, almost?
GOPNIK
Exactly.
GALLOWAY
You talk about this in the book. The reason you go out, in part, is to be surprised by things. Somebody brings you something that you wouldn’t expect, in a way that you wouldn’t expect, in a setting that you wouldn’t expect. And if it doesn’t meat your standards then you feel like, we could have done this at home. We could have had a better time at home.
You talk about this in the book. The reason you go out, in part, is to be surprised by things. Somebody brings you something that you wouldn’t expect, in a way that you wouldn’t expect, in a setting that you wouldn’t expect. And if it doesn’t meat your standards then you feel like, we could have done this at home. We could have had a better time at home.
GOPNIK
Exactly. And we wouldn’t be paying this much money. We wouldn’t be this wearily looking for the check. We wouldn’t be asking ourselves, when can we get home so we can watch Mad Men with our coffee.
Exactly. And we wouldn’t be paying this much money. We wouldn’t be this wearily looking for the check. We wouldn’t be asking ourselves, when can we get home so we can watch Mad Men with our coffee.
There’s also no one, at home, by the door, standing, watching and waiting to take your table.
TABLE COMES FIRST
MINTZ
The thing that I want to ask you about is your table, at home.
MINTZ
The thing that I want to ask you about is your table, at home.
GOPNIK
It’s a little like yours. We have a big, sort of shakerish table. We bought it in New York, just before we left for Paris. And it’s got boards at either end to extend it.
It’s a little like yours. We have a big, sort of shakerish table. We bought it in New York, just before we left for Paris. And it’s got boards at either end to extend it.
GALLOWAY
Leaves.
Leaves.
GOPNIK
But they have another name for it. Anyways, so it’s a very long … I should have a picture of it.
But they have another name for it. Anyways, so it’s a very long … I should have a picture of it.
MINTZ
So the boards slide out?
GOPNIK
No, you have to attach them. But it’s a plank table with a kind of rosewood finish. Martha and I agonized over the finish of the invisible legs forever, which is what we tend to do. and that’s our table. It’s a giant thing. We always liked the idea of having way too big a table. So you can be writing down at one end. We had a dear friend who always kept lots of lit silver candle sticks on the table at all times. So we sort of adopted that.
So the boards slide out?
GOPNIK
No, you have to attach them. But it’s a plank table with a kind of rosewood finish. Martha and I agonized over the finish of the invisible legs forever, which is what we tend to do. and that’s our table. It’s a giant thing. We always liked the idea of having way too big a table. So you can be writing down at one end. We had a dear friend who always kept lots of lit silver candle sticks on the table at all times. So we sort of adopted that.
MINTZ
How many does it seat?
How many does it seat?
GOPNIK
When we have everyone around it, for Thanksgiving, about 14.
When we have everyone around it, for Thanksgiving, about 14.
GALLOWAY
That’s awesome.
That’s awesome.
LOUREIRO
Wow.
Wow.
MEDLEY
You write at the table. It’s not specifically to eat.
You write at the table. It’s not specifically to eat.
GOPNIK
It’s an office. It’s where I write. When I’m having people over to collaborate with, it’s where I’ll sit to do that.
It’s an office. It’s where I write. When I’m having people over to collaborate with, it’s where I’ll sit to do that.
MCKAY
Kids do homework at the table.
GOPNIK
That’s where, supposedly, it’s being done. So it’s an all-purpose thing. Again, a friend of ours inspired us to treat it this way.
That’s where, supposedly, it’s being done. So it’s an all-purpose thing. Again, a friend of ours inspired us to treat it this way.
MEDLEY
Did it come to Paris with you?
GOPNIK
It certainly did come to Paris with us. Though to be perfectly honest, in Paris, most Paris apartments, the older ones at least, have the kitchen, way down a hallway. Because the kitchen was separate from the apartment because usually you had a …
Did it come to Paris with you?
GOPNIK
It certainly did come to Paris with us. Though to be perfectly honest, in Paris, most Paris apartments, the older ones at least, have the kitchen, way down a hallway. Because the kitchen was separate from the apartment because usually you had a …
MEDLEY
Servant.
Servant.
GOPNIK
… a servant who was doing it. So we ended up eating in the kitchen a lot. Which I love to do. In our New York place, we have a café table in the kitchen. I have a theory that nobody ever lives in the living room. (switches to lecturer mode) People live formally in the dining room. They try to, with their relatives. But actually, most life goes on at the kitchen table. It’s at the kitchen table, at quarter to midnight, that you tell your parents that you’re not going to go to college, you’re leaving, you’re gay, whatever it is. That’s the most frequent locale of necessary and long-delayed family talks. It’s also the place where, I always find, you can confide in your kids best. It’s a quartet to 12, you come home, you’re making scrambled eggs or something for them, you say, ‘Did I ever tell you about the first time I met your mother?’ Yeah, dad, you did. ‘Well did I really ever tell you about it?’ No, I guess you didn’t. ‘Well let me tell you about it’. That sort of thing.
… a servant who was doing it. So we ended up eating in the kitchen a lot. Which I love to do. In our New York place, we have a café table in the kitchen. I have a theory that nobody ever lives in the living room. (switches to lecturer mode) People live formally in the dining room. They try to, with their relatives. But actually, most life goes on at the kitchen table. It’s at the kitchen table, at quarter to midnight, that you tell your parents that you’re not going to go to college, you’re leaving, you’re gay, whatever it is. That’s the most frequent locale of necessary and long-delayed family talks. It’s also the place where, I always find, you can confide in your kids best. It’s a quartet to 12, you come home, you’re making scrambled eggs or something for them, you say, ‘Did I ever tell you about the first time I met your mother?’ Yeah, dad, you did. ‘Well did I really ever tell you about it?’ No, I guess you didn’t. ‘Well let me tell you about it’. That sort of thing.
Last of the freezer's confit lamb shoulder. Time to make more.
I know, it's become a staple dish. But I'm proud of it. And I'm sitting on a year's supply of jus.
MINTZ
Well it’s a neutral space but it’s also a neutral space where we can have another activity going on.
Well it’s a neutral space but it’s also a neutral space where we can have another activity going on.
GOPNIK
Exactly. Your back is turned towards the person who’s listening to you. You’re genuinely engaged in something else simultaneously as well.
Exactly. Your back is turned towards the person who’s listening to you. You’re genuinely engaged in something else simultaneously as well.
MINTZ
Because you can get up there and fiddle with cups or whatever, as opposed to the living room …
Because you can get up there and fiddle with cups or whatever, as opposed to the living room …
GOPNIK
Right.
Right.
MINTZ
… where, we’re going to ‘sit down and have a talk’.
… where, we’re going to ‘sit down and have a talk’.
GOPNIK
Exactly.
Exactly.
MEDLEY
So you think people lower their guards when they’re at the kitchen table because they thing the person they’re talking to isn’t listening?
So you think people lower their guards when they’re at the kitchen table because they thing the person they’re talking to isn’t listening?
MINTZ
It’s the same as when you’re in a restaurant with a friend. It’s a totally different meal if we sit across from each other, versus if we sit at the bar.
MEDLEY
Yes!
Yes!
MINTZ
And now the pressure’s off. So we relax a little bit more.
And now the pressure’s off. So we relax a little bit more.
GOPNIK
I think that’s absolutely right. And then also, as I say in the book, there’s that progression from wine to caffeine as well. The wine is a myopic drug. So you suddenly become extremely intimate and close and the world disappears around you. But I think most of the big conversations I’ve had in life …
I think that’s absolutely right. And then also, as I say in the book, there’s that progression from wine to caffeine as well. The wine is a myopic drug. So you suddenly become extremely intimate and close and the world disappears around you. But I think most of the big conversations I’ve had in life …
GALLOWAY
Happen around the table.
Happen around the table.
GOPNIK
The kitchen table, particularly. When your back is turned and you say, ‘I was thinking I want to go to Paris.’ You really want to do that? ‘Yeah. I really would like to.’ Ok.
The kitchen table, particularly. When your back is turned and you say, ‘I was thinking I want to go to Paris.’ You really want to do that? ‘Yeah. I really would like to.’ Ok.
GALLOWAY
Or we should have another child.
Or we should have another child.
GOPNIK
Exactly. It’s the ‘I’m pregnant’ conversation.
Exactly. It’s the ‘I’m pregnant’ conversation.
Date of publication: Saturday, December 10th, 2011
Part B tomorrow: Is Food Snobbism a Class Issue?
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