Status: FED
· Lamb + Parsnip
· Pork & Sweetbread Terrine + Apple & Parsnip Chutney
· Pig’s Head + Bread + Pickles
· Soma’s almond cookies (Jenny brought them)
Guest #105.1: Christopher St. Onge
Occupation: food stylist
Contributed: Domaine Grand Veneur 2009 Chateauneuf-du-Pape
Guest #105.2: Rob Fiocca
Occupation: food photographer
Contributed: Tedeschi 2006 Amarone Della Valpolicella
Sent thank-you: email
Guest #105.3: Paul Terefenko
Occupation: writer, The Lavin Group
Contributed: Dead Letter Office 2007 Shiraz
Sent thank-you: email
Guest #105.4: Jennifer Yang
Occupation: writer, Toronto Star
Contributed: almond cookies from Soma
Sent thank-you: email
Guest #105.5: Steve Russell
Occupation: photographer, Toronto Star
Contributed: Calicanto 2009
Sent thank-you: In person (saw him soon after)
SETTING THE TABLE
YANG
How much pre-planning goes into styling?
ST. ONGE
A lot. Hours and hours and hours.
ST. ONGE
A lot. Hours and hours and hours.
YANG
And what kind of things do you take into consideration?
ST. ONGE
How long it’s going to stay stable on set. So if something is particularly perishable, I’ll need triples or quadruples of it.
And what kind of things do you take into consideration?
ST. ONGE
How long it’s going to stay stable on set. So if something is particularly perishable, I’ll need triples or quadruples of it.
YANG
So how many iterations of a meal will you have to go through to get that shot?
So how many iterations of a meal will you have to go through to get that shot?
ST. ONGE
At least two.
At least two.
YANG
What’s the most you’ve gone through?
What’s the most you’ve gone through?
ST. ONGE
Oh my god. I’ve done shots where we’ve reset it 10, 12, actually once with Rob, we were doing a coffee packaging job and it involved having cream on top of the coffee and then a drizzle of caramel. We must have done it a trillion times. So the standard is much different. You’ve got to scoop it out, can’t keep it on set. Use a q-tip to clean up the edges. Do the foam again. Do the drizzle again. At least 40 times we did that shot.
Oh my god. I’ve done shots where we’ve reset it 10, 12, actually once with Rob, we were doing a coffee packaging job and it involved having cream on top of the coffee and then a drizzle of caramel. We must have done it a trillion times. So the standard is much different. You’ve got to scoop it out, can’t keep it on set. Use a q-tip to clean up the edges. Do the foam again. Do the drizzle again. At least 40 times we did that shot.
But the preproduction stuff. We’re on set five days a week, which is really unusual for a food stylist. One week is probably 80 hours. So I’ll put in 60 and my assistant will put in about 20. So she’s working a day ahead of me. Being on set, that’s the part when you get to breathe. It’s actually the most calm part of what I do.
FAKE FOOD vs REAL FOOD
ST. ONGE
The only thing that’s really left of those old school tricks is using fake ice cream, when it’s virtually impossible to use real. And sometimes turkeys are browned artificially. Depends what the client is looking for. Most of them like it real these days.
ST. ONGE
The only thing that’s really left of those old school tricks is using fake ice cream, when it’s virtually impossible to use real. And sometimes turkeys are browned artificially. Depends what the client is looking for. Most of them like it real these days.
RUSSELL
isn’t it sometimes not real food that you’re photographing?
TEREFENKO
Lipstick on the strawberries?
isn’t it sometimes not real food that you’re photographing?
TEREFENKO
Lipstick on the strawberries?
FIOCCA
I would say almost 99.9 percent is always real food. Unless you are making a model of a chocolate bar or doing something unusual for advertising.
I would say almost 99.9 percent is always real food. Unless you are making a model of a chocolate bar or doing something unusual for advertising.
TEREFENKO
But I’ve got to be honest, I’ve never had that burger in the McDonald’s ad. It’s this big. everything is kind of floating there.
But I’ve got to be honest, I’ve never had that burger in the McDonald’s ad. It’s this big. everything is kind of floating there.
FIOCCA
We try to make it look better than it really is.
We try to make it look better than it really is.
TEREFENKO
Well you’re doing a good job because I want to eat it.
Well you’re doing a good job because I want to eat it.
FIOCCA
But you can’t cheat. You cannot embellish. Sure, you can make it look fresh and undercook it so it looks a little larger than it is when it’s fully cooked. But you have to use all the same ingredients.
But you can’t cheat. You cannot embellish. Sure, you can make it look fresh and undercook it so it looks a little larger than it is when it’s fully cooked. But you have to use all the same ingredients.
…(continued from earlier)
RUSSELL
If you’re shooting food you want the food to be as real as possible. I was asking, do you use the lard as ice cream.
FIOCCA
They don’t anymore. We don’t anymore. The clients want it to be real.
They don’t anymore. We don’t anymore. The clients want it to be real.
If you're interested in the making of this terrine, I describe it with a bit more detail in last week's ATE
PHOTOJOURNALISM
FIOCCA
Do you love what you do or do you get frustrated?
RUSSELL
Oh I love it but I do get frustrated.
Do you love what you do or do you get frustrated?
RUSSELL
Oh I love it but I do get frustrated.
FIOCCA
What’s your biggest frustration?
RUSSELL
I think a lot of it’s just how stuff runs. Right now we’ve gotten rid of a lot of our photo editors. So people run pictures that are very literal to the story instead of looking at it as another avenue of displaying, using the images as another voice of someone who was there.
What’s your biggest frustration?
RUSSELL
I think a lot of it’s just how stuff runs. Right now we’ve gotten rid of a lot of our photo editors. So people run pictures that are very literal to the story instead of looking at it as another avenue of displaying, using the images as another voice of someone who was there.
FIOCCA
Where as you would like to do something more creative?
RUSSELL
Oh no. It depends on what you shoot. Sometimes we’ll send a reporter to a story and we’ll send a photographer. And a lot of times, if the picture doesn’t match with up the story, they’ll try to pick a picture that matches the story. Your best picture from that event ends up going nowhere …
Oh no. It depends on what you shoot. Sometimes we’ll send a reporter to a story and we’ll send a photographer. And a lot of times, if the picture doesn’t match with up the story, they’ll try to pick a picture that matches the story. Your best picture from that event ends up going nowhere …
FIOCCA
Because it doesn’t match the story.
Because it doesn’t match the story.
RUSSELL
Because it doesn’t match the story. But a lot of times we’ll send a writer and a columnist to an event along with a photographer. And the columnist can go and do whatever they want. And it’s like a different view of that event. And they don’t treat the photographer the same way where they go, ‘This guy saw something at this event that adds to the whole package.’
Because it doesn’t match the story. But a lot of times we’ll send a writer and a columnist to an event along with a photographer. And the columnist can go and do whatever they want. And it’s like a different view of that event. And they don’t treat the photographer the same way where they go, ‘This guy saw something at this event that adds to the whole package.’
FIOCCA
Do you find that the words are more important?
Do you find that the words are more important?
RUSSELL
All the time.
All the time.
FIOCCA
So you’re second in line, then. Your photographs have to match what the story is.
So you’re second in line, then. Your photographs have to match what the story is.
RUSSELL
Exactly. Or the way I see it is, the way the newspaper industry runs in Canada is, there are only two or three big universities. People go to Ryserson, Carleton, a couple places out west. Those are the big journalism schools. There’s no photojournalism in universities. There are three courses. There’s one in Belleville. There’s the Southern Alberta School of Technology. There’s another place in Victoria called the Western Academy of Photography.
Exactly. Or the way I see it is, the way the newspaper industry runs in Canada is, there are only two or three big universities. People go to Ryserson, Carleton, a couple places out west. Those are the big journalism schools. There’s no photojournalism in universities. There are three courses. There’s one in Belleville. There’s the Southern Alberta School of Technology. There’s another place in Victoria called the Western Academy of Photography.
FIOCCA
And those are the only three?
RUSSELL
Those are the only three.
And those are the only three?
RUSSELL
Those are the only three.
FIOCCA
So OCAD, places like that, they don’t focus on journalism?
So OCAD, places like that, they don’t focus on journalism?
RUSSELL
These are the three photojournalism schools. So what we have is all these people coming out of schools with university degrees in journalism. A lot of these photojournalism courses didn’t exist until 25 years ago. So there’s a big history in Canada of people going to journalism school. If you go to the States, the big journalism schools there, like Western Kentucky, Missouri, they all have a photojournalism course that runs along side of it. So as people are learning about the business they’re learning what good photography is and its importance. In Canada we have a void. So all the sudden we get these people that come out of schools and to break up the front page they think, ‘I need a picture to break up the type. Oh boom. There’s the head shot.’
These are the three photojournalism schools. So what we have is all these people coming out of schools with university degrees in journalism. A lot of these photojournalism courses didn’t exist until 25 years ago. So there’s a big history in Canada of people going to journalism school. If you go to the States, the big journalism schools there, like Western Kentucky, Missouri, they all have a photojournalism course that runs along side of it. So as people are learning about the business they’re learning what good photography is and its importance. In Canada we have a void. So all the sudden we get these people that come out of schools and to break up the front page they think, ‘I need a picture to break up the type. Oh boom. There’s the head shot.’
FIOCCA
And that’s all they’re interested in. So what would you do differently? You would always want your best photograph displayed as opposed to something that made sense to the story.
RUSSELL
Sometimes it’s a juggling act. Sometimes you take a picture and you know you want it printed. It might not match the reporter’s story but this is the best picture from that event. This is a wowwer. This picture will stop people on that page. And they will most likely read the story because the picture stopped them on that page.
And that’s all they’re interested in. So what would you do differently? You would always want your best photograph displayed as opposed to something that made sense to the story.
RUSSELL
Sometimes it’s a juggling act. Sometimes you take a picture and you know you want it printed. It might not match the reporter’s story but this is the best picture from that event. This is a wowwer. This picture will stop people on that page. And they will most likely read the story because the picture stopped them on that page.
FIOCCA
So you’re fighting for the right for your photographs to have the same amount of impact as the articles.
So you’re fighting for the right for your photographs to have the same amount of impact as the articles.
RUSSELL
Pictures always have more impact.
Pictures always have more impact.
FIOCCA
I think so too.
I think so too.
RUSSELL
They do all these studies. There’s an institute in the States called the Poynter Institute. It’s based in St. Petersburg, Florida. And they do all these eye tracker studies. 93% of people look at all the pictures on the page. Out of those, 78% read the captions underneath those pictures. 77% read the headlines on the page. And then it keeps on going from there, down and down. 25% of people read past four paragraphs in the story.
They do all these studies. There’s an institute in the States called the Poynter Institute. It’s based in St. Petersburg, Florida. And they do all these eye tracker studies. 93% of people look at all the pictures on the page. Out of those, 78% read the captions underneath those pictures. 77% read the headlines on the page. And then it keeps on going from there, down and down. 25% of people read past four paragraphs in the story.
FIOCCA
Can I ask how old you are?
Can I ask how old you are?
RUSSELL
44.
44.
FIOCCA
Is it everything you expected from your profession? Are you getting the satisfaction that you wanted? Financial as well as creative as well as lifestyle.
Is it everything you expected from your profession? Are you getting the satisfaction that you wanted? Financial as well as creative as well as lifestyle.
I think so. You’re always looking at your neighbour’s lawn and thinking, ‘Maybe that lawn is greener.’ But for the most part my lawn’s pretty green. You go to the Olympics. You come back and the next day you’re just shooting wine bottles on a table.
TWO TYPES OF PHOTOGRAPHERS.
FIOCCA
You guys are journalistic photographers who have to be there ready to capture a moment, and that’s a talent in itself. We as compositional, still-life photographers, are in our own element, our own environment. We need our own space, our time, to create that photograph. You guys are capturing something. It’s two completely different things.
You guys are journalistic photographers who have to be there ready to capture a moment, and that’s a talent in itself. We as compositional, still-life photographers, are in our own element, our own environment. We need our own space, our time, to create that photograph. You guys are capturing something. It’s two completely different things.
MINTZ
You’re in control. They’re ready to go.
You’re in control. They’re ready to go.
FIOCCA
But they have to be in the right spot. What they do is so important because, not only do they have to be in the right spot, but in that split-second they have to compose that photograph. That’s everything.
But they have to be in the right spot. What they do is so important because, not only do they have to be in the right spot, but in that split-second they have to compose that photograph. That’s everything.
RUSSELL
The one thing I find about what I do is, because we have to be good at lot of things. And we end up not being great at something. The hardest thing for me when I was starting out, was being consistent. We learned all about photojournalism at school. Then you come out and the next thing you know, you’re doing food shoots, fashion shoots. I shoot sports and it always makes me better as a feature and news photographer because I’m able to react to things a lot quicker. I’m able to develop a talent to anticipate what’s happening. Then my feature photography, or stuff I do in the studio, helps me become a better sports photographer because I learn composition and I learn lighting.
The one thing I find about what I do is, because we have to be good at lot of things. And we end up not being great at something. The hardest thing for me when I was starting out, was being consistent. We learned all about photojournalism at school. Then you come out and the next thing you know, you’re doing food shoots, fashion shoots. I shoot sports and it always makes me better as a feature and news photographer because I’m able to react to things a lot quicker. I’m able to develop a talent to anticipate what’s happening. Then my feature photography, or stuff I do in the studio, helps me become a better sports photographer because I learn composition and I learn lighting.
FIOCCA
Which is everything in photography, composition and lighting.
Which is everything in photography, composition and lighting.
RUSSELL
But you were right on when you said that the most important thing that we do is capturing moments.
But you were right on when you said that the most important thing that we do is capturing moments.
FIOCCA
And doing it well.
And doing it well.
RUSSELL
When I talk to kids at school, I’ll look at their portfolio. If I don’t see any moments, I’ll go, ‘This is beautifully lit, but until you have a moment in there, this is just a nice picture.’
When I talk to kids at school, I’ll look at their portfolio. If I don’t see any moments, I’ll go, ‘This is beautifully lit, but until you have a moment in there, this is just a nice picture.’
FIOCCA
For your world.
For your world.
RUSSELL
Yeah. I’m telling them how to be a journalist. But I find, for a lot of photography, moments make it. Even if you’re shooting your kids outside, do you get your kids standing in front of the house like little soldiers or is it much better when they’re interacting with each other?
Yeah. I’m telling them how to be a journalist. But I find, for a lot of photography, moments make it. Even if you’re shooting your kids outside, do you get your kids standing in front of the house like little soldiers or is it much better when they’re interacting with each other?
FIOCCA
That’s a lifestyle thing though. You’re looking at it from a lifestyle perspective. Even when we shoot stock or we shoot people for banks or whoever we might shoot people for, we’re trying to capture a lifestyle. We have to create that lifestyle. When you walk into that scene, that lifestyle’s already there. So you have to find that perfect composition and get it.
That’s a lifestyle thing though. You’re looking at it from a lifestyle perspective. Even when we shoot stock or we shoot people for banks or whoever we might shoot people for, we’re trying to capture a lifestyle. We have to create that lifestyle. When you walk into that scene, that lifestyle’s already there. So you have to find that perfect composition and get it.
MINTZ
But take something like tonight. Sometimes I’ll get photographers that come for short times. Sometimes they’re here all night. Specifically there was a moment when you got up and you were carving the head. And for me I was excited. Steve got in there and he was shooting. That’s a moment. Because there’s an interaction, between you and the food and the other people. You’ll look at the shot and you’ll see that everyone is focused; on you, the knife or the meat. When the guy comes here for 20 minutes, you don’t get that. So the other part is, you have to be so patient. Sometimes it’s just about being ready.
But take something like tonight. Sometimes I’ll get photographers that come for short times. Sometimes they’re here all night. Specifically there was a moment when you got up and you were carving the head. And for me I was excited. Steve got in there and he was shooting. That’s a moment. Because there’s an interaction, between you and the food and the other people. You’ll look at the shot and you’ll see that everyone is focused; on you, the knife or the meat. When the guy comes here for 20 minutes, you don’t get that. So the other part is, you have to be so patient. Sometimes it’s just about being ready.
RUSSELL
Usually when I shoot your Fed, I’m just sitting on that couch there, just kind of being a fly on the wall.
Usually when I shoot your Fed, I’m just sitting on that couch there, just kind of being a fly on the wall.
MINTZ
I like it when they do that.
I like it when they do that.
FIOCCA
This photograph (points to something from book) we need to create from scratch. From picking out the background, how the food is going to be styled, how the composition is going to be.
This photograph (points to something from book) we need to create from scratch. From picking out the background, how the food is going to be styled, how the composition is going to be.
ST. ONGE
But in-studio food photography is leaning more toward that storytelling.
But in-studio food photography is leaning more toward that storytelling.
FIOCCA
Yes. Absolutely. People want it.
Yes. Absolutely. People want it.
ST. ONGE
Where we’ve come in terms of making things look authentic, in food styling, the next frontier, in authenticity is things like hand holding the camera, doing a more photojournalistic style. That’s starting to happen.
Where we’ve come in terms of making things look authentic, in food styling, the next frontier, in authenticity is things like hand holding the camera, doing a more photojournalistic style. That’s starting to happen.
TEREFENKO
And that’s really accessible for people too.
And that’s really accessible for people too.
FIOCCA
As long as it’s done right. You can pick up a camera and start shooting anything. but if it doesn’t give you that taste appeal and that artful sense, it’s not going to resonate. It’ll be just another photograph that you flip through and it goes under the birdcage.
As long as it’s done right. You can pick up a camera and start shooting anything. but if it doesn’t give you that taste appeal and that artful sense, it’s not going to resonate. It’ll be just another photograph that you flip through and it goes under the birdcage.
4. CANNIBALISM
I swear that there was a reasonable lead-in to this discussion. Something about shipwrecks and pirates.
YANG
Who here hasn’t wondered about what people taste like?
Who here hasn’t wondered about what people taste like?
FIOCCA
We were talking about that the other day. Apparently the breast and the butt is the first thing that you go for.
We were talking about that the other day. Apparently the breast and the butt is the first thing that you go for.
YANG
Well that’s obvious. Not just in eating. In mating as well.
Well that’s obvious. Not just in eating. In mating as well.
FIOCCA
Apparently you go for those parts first because of the juicy content.
Apparently you go for those parts first because of the juicy content.
YANG
I had this debate with somebody. If you’re in a plane crash and you’re stranded with one other person and you guys are starving and you realize you have to start eating yourselves, would you rather eat the other person or your own flesh?
I had this debate with somebody. If you’re in a plane crash and you’re stranded with one other person and you guys are starving and you realize you have to start eating yourselves, would you rather eat the other person or your own flesh?
MINTZ
I’m pretty sure the other person.
I’m pretty sure the other person.
YANG
Both of you have to eat something. But it’s a choice between that guy’s earlobe or your own.
Both of you have to eat something. But it’s a choice between that guy’s earlobe or your own.
FIOCCA
I might start eating vegetation.
I might start eating vegetation.
MINTZ
Do we have anesthetics and an induction element?
Do we have anesthetics and an induction element?
FIOCCA
Cut the toes off.
MINTZ
Is that what you’d remove first?
Is that what you’d remove first?
YANG
I was thinking the earlobe would make a good hors d’oeuvre. And you’d have to suck on it for a while.
I was thinking the earlobe would make a good hors d’oeuvre. And you’d have to suck on it for a while.
FIOCCA
How long would it last.
How long would it last.
RUSSELL
If you were on an island you’d be able to catch fish.
If you were on an island you’d be able to catch fish.
MINTZ
How much nutrients are you getting from an ear lobe? If you’re trying to stay alive and you’re willing to resort to cannibalism, ear lobe is not worth it.
How much nutrients are you getting from an ear lobe? If you’re trying to stay alive and you’re willing to resort to cannibalism, ear lobe is not worth it.
FIOCCA
But there’s blood in an earlobe.
But there’s blood in an earlobe.
TEREFENKO
No. That’s a bad idea. You’ve got two kidneys. Go for a kidney. Convince the guy he’ll be ok.
No. That’s a bad idea. You’ve got two kidneys. Go for a kidney. Convince the guy he’ll be ok.
YANG
But you have to get them out.
But you have to get them out.
TEREFENKO
Just tell him, ‘You’ve got two, don’t worry about it.’
YANG
You’ve got two testicles.
Just tell him, ‘You’ve got two, don’t worry about it.’
YANG
You’ve got two testicles.
ST. ONGE
The truth of the matter is, that if I were really confronted with having to eat part of another person or part of myself, I’d sneak up on them, kill them and eat them in their entirety.
The truth of the matter is, that if I were really confronted with having to eat part of another person or part of myself, I’d sneak up on them, kill them and eat them in their entirety.
RUSSELL
How would you style that meal?
This is a horrible photo of some beautiful food.
ART vs COMMERCE
FIOCCA
We’re looking at it from an art perspective, not a realistic perspective. It’s all premeditated through the prop stylist, the food stylist and ourselves, trying to figure out how to get the most creative look that we can, whether it’s through lighting, composition or texture. We shoot for clients every day. We try and do as creative a job as we can. But sometimes our parameters are not allowing us.
We’re looking at it from an art perspective, not a realistic perspective. It’s all premeditated through the prop stylist, the food stylist and ourselves, trying to figure out how to get the most creative look that we can, whether it’s through lighting, composition or texture. We shoot for clients every day. We try and do as creative a job as we can. But sometimes our parameters are not allowing us.
MINTZ
Was the client happy with this?
FIOCCA
Was the client happy with this?
FIOCCA
No client. But this is our strongest work. This is the stuff that goes on our website. This is the stuff that hires us to do the basic work.
ST. ONGE
But don’t you find it ironic that they look at stuff like that, and it’s the art directors that respond to it and then they tie your hands and tell you that you can’t do anything like that.
But don’t you find it ironic that they look at stuff like that, and it’s the art directors that respond to it and then they tie your hands and tell you that you can’t do anything like that.
FIOCCA
Absolutely. And I think their hands are tied too. Because their message from their clients is, sell product.
Absolutely. And I think their hands are tied too. Because their message from their clients is, sell product.
I like it when my camera catches the flash from someone else's. It's like they've all been caught in some sordid act.
Date of publication: Saturday, November 19th, 2011
Oh, and seriously, go to their website, to see some REAL food photography.
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