Status: FED
· Fried Chicken
· Brussels Sprouts + Almonds + Apples + Barley + Lemon + Parsley (in chinese take-out)
· PB & J (Pork Belly & Jicama Flatbread Sandwiches)
Guest #103.1: Cameron Hawkins
Occupation: Cameron Hawkins & Associates Inc.
Advisory services to the hospitality & tourism industries
Sent thank-you: email
Guest #103.2: Marianne Morones
Occupation: street food vendor, executive director of Street Food Vendor’s Association
Contributed: dessert
Sent thank-you: email
Guest #103.3: Hassel Aviles
Occupation: founder of Toronto Underground Market
Contributed: Tawse 2010 Gewurztraminer, Cave Spring Brut
Sent thank-you: email
Guest #103.4: Andrew Richmond
Occupation: founder of La Carnita
Contributed: see above
Sent thank-you: email
Guest #103.5: Colin Tooke
Occupation: chef
Contributed: Hop Head India Pale Ale
Sent thank-you: text
Guest #103.6: Jonathan Goldsbie
Occupation: Comrade Twitter
Contributed: Dead Elephant Ale
Sent thank-you: phone
1. RENTING A COMMERCIAL KITCHEN. ABSURD?
TOOKE
You make your own sausages?
MORONEY
No. We’re not allowed to.
No. We’re not allowed to.
HAWKINS
Well you’d have to have a properly inspected …
Well you’d have to have a properly inspected …
MORONEY
Yeah. I could.
Yeah. I could.
HAWKINS
If you had a commercial kitchen.
If you had a commercial kitchen.
RICHMOND
That’s what we run into. Tomorrow I’m at Food Share. I’ve rented it for the day. This one’s actually … I was doing it by myself and it turned out that other people at Toronto Underground Market needed kitchen space as well, above and beyond what the Brickworks is offering. Alvin there is the kitchen manager. It’s by Dufferin Mall.
That’s what we run into. Tomorrow I’m at Food Share. I’ve rented it for the day. This one’s actually … I was doing it by myself and it turned out that other people at Toronto Underground Market needed kitchen space as well, above and beyond what the Brickworks is offering. Alvin there is the kitchen manager. It’s by Dufferin Mall.
HAWKINS
And what does that cost you?
RICHMOND
$35 and hour.
And what does that cost you?
RICHMOND
$35 and hour.
AVILES
Per vendor.
Per vendor.
HAWKINS
So what do you get?
RICHMOND
You get a fully operational kitchen that can fit 25 people.
So what do you get?
RICHMOND
You get a fully operational kitchen that can fit 25 people.
MORONEY
So if you guys went in together it would be $35 each?
So if you guys went in together it would be $35 each?
AVILES
Or you can try to negotiate with Alvin. He knows that you’re going to take that food that you made in that commercial kitchen and sell it.
Or you can try to negotiate with Alvin. He knows that you’re going to take that food that you made in that commercial kitchen and sell it.
TOOKE
$35 an hour is not crazy.
$35 an hour is not crazy.
RICHMOND
Previously I’ve been using the kitchens of the guy that I roll with. He’s got a couple restaurants. Before that we weren’t using commercial kitchens and then we realized we had to clean it up a bit.
Previously I’ve been using the kitchens of the guy that I roll with. He’s got a couple restaurants. Before that we weren’t using commercial kitchens and then we realized we had to clean it up a bit.
MORONEY
Well I think you’re smart to go with the law because then there are no repercussions.
Well I think you’re smart to go with the law because then there are no repercussions.
AVILES
Yeah, well he is selling to the public.
RICHMOND
Honestly, this all started, it wasn’t nefarious. It was started just to test some tacos. It was a little thing out of a design studio and we just treated it like an art show. Come buy this art and instead of wine and cheese you get tacos. That’s how it started. And the first day we opened, 100 people came. And the next time, 200 people and the time after that, 300 people. The whole way we wrapped it up, we kept the whole street art, street music, culture … and it was transparent. It wasn’t like we were used car salesman. We were just doing stuff that we like to do.
Honestly, this all started, it wasn’t nefarious. It was started just to test some tacos. It was a little thing out of a design studio and we just treated it like an art show. Come buy this art and instead of wine and cheese you get tacos. That’s how it started. And the first day we opened, 100 people came. And the next time, 200 people and the time after that, 300 people. The whole way we wrapped it up, we kept the whole street art, street music, culture … and it was transparent. It wasn’t like we were used car salesman. We were just doing stuff that we like to do.
MORONEY
This is where there’s that fine line. Because when Public Health stops bake sales at community centres or churches, we’ve got to be very careful. Is this the road that we really want to push? If it becomes a commercial venture, you can see how it saves your ass in the long run.
This is where there’s that fine line. Because when Public Health stops bake sales at community centres or churches, we’ve got to be very careful. Is this the road that we really want to push? If it becomes a commercial venture, you can see how it saves your ass in the long run.
RICHMOND
And that’s why we’ve switched over. But at the beginning, I couldn’t pay $35 an hour for a kitchen.
And that’s why we’ve switched over. But at the beginning, I couldn’t pay $35 an hour for a kitchen.
MORONEY
Of course not.
Of course not.
AVILES
It’s just absurd. The whole commercial kitchen thing, I think it’s absurd.
It’s just absurd. The whole commercial kitchen thing, I think it’s absurd.
MORONEY
It’s a logistic point to be able to say, we did what we had to do.
It’s a logistic point to be able to say, we did what we had to do.
AVILES
When you’re first starting out a business, the fact that the city expects you to do everything in a commercial kitchen and pay for everything yourself, I think it’s absurd, that the city doesn’t then provide commercial kitchens around the city that are at a more affordable rate. It doesn’t make sense to me that they actually expect people to pay this much money and not …
When you’re first starting out a business, the fact that the city expects you to do everything in a commercial kitchen and pay for everything yourself, I think it’s absurd, that the city doesn’t then provide commercial kitchens around the city that are at a more affordable rate. It doesn’t make sense to me that they actually expect people to pay this much money and not …
MORONEY
Because that wasn’t their …
AVILES
… provide alternatives. There are little to no commercial kitchens in this city. Food share is so over …
… provide alternatives. There are little to no commercial kitchens in this city. Food share is so over …
HAWKINS
Can I ask a simple question? Are we off the record, on the record?
Can I ask a simple question? Are we off the record, on the record?
At this point AVILES picks up my recorder and “accidentally” presses the pause button.
2. … THE RECORDER IS TURNED BACK ON. WE’RE TALKING ABOUT INSPECTING KITCHENS FOR FUNDRAISERS
TOOKE
… but sure, it is illegal. But unless you make someone sick, no one is ever going to find out.
AVILES
People do it all the time.
People do it all the time.
TOOKE
Everybody does it. Why wouldn’t you do it? Are you going to take the two weeks it takes to contact the city councilor and say, oh, I’m going to do a fundraiser. Where would I find a kitchen? They’d say, ‘We don’t know’. Why would I even bother?
Everybody does it. Why wouldn’t you do it? Are you going to take the two weeks it takes to contact the city councilor and say, oh, I’m going to do a fundraiser. Where would I find a kitchen? They’d say, ‘We don’t know’. Why would I even bother?
AVILES
Exactly.
Exactly.
MORONEY
It’s more like, ‘Hey girlfriends, you have Saturday afternoon available? I’ve got the groceries. We’re going to be meeting at so-and-so’s kitchen. We’re going to do 75,000 spring rolls.’ And that’s how it usually was done. Then, because so many more people were doing this, because the food culture has become very exciting now and people are wanting it, all of a sudden there’s this spotlight on it.
It’s more like, ‘Hey girlfriends, you have Saturday afternoon available? I’ve got the groceries. We’re going to be meeting at so-and-so’s kitchen. We’re going to do 75,000 spring rolls.’ And that’s how it usually was done. Then, because so many more people were doing this, because the food culture has become very exciting now and people are wanting it, all of a sudden there’s this spotlight on it.
HAWKINS
And that’s the key. Like Marianne said, you go into this, hopefully, to be successful. And the minute you are successful you step into that spotlight and now you are going to be inspected. ‘Where did you buy this? Where did you source that? Where did you make this?’
And that’s the key. Like Marianne said, you go into this, hopefully, to be successful. And the minute you are successful you step into that spotlight and now you are going to be inspected. ‘Where did you buy this? Where did you source that? Where did you make this?’
AVILES
You’d be surprised at the amount of information I have to give Toronto Public Health, for my 25 vendors. I’ve done everything above board from the beginning.
You’d be surprised at the amount of information I have to give Toronto Public Health, for my 25 vendors. I’ve done everything above board from the beginning.
MINTZ
Would you actually be surprised by it?
HAWKINS
No I wouldn’t. I know what I have to do if I put a concessionaire into a show, at the Molson Indy or at Word on the Street, exactly like the street vendors, we have to say: this is what we’re making; this is where we bought the products; this is how it’s being prepared; this is how it’s being stored and served.
Would you actually be surprised by it?
HAWKINS
No I wouldn’t. I know what I have to do if I put a concessionaire into a show, at the Molson Indy or at Word on the Street, exactly like the street vendors, we have to say: this is what we’re making; this is where we bought the products; this is how it’s being prepared; this is how it’s being stored and served.
MORONEY
Actually it’s lighter for you guys that are doing one day events than it is for vendors.
Actually it’s lighter for you guys that are doing one day events than it is for vendors.
AVILES
You’re right.
You’re right.
RICHMOND
There was food at the TUM that got compromised due to things that they were implementing with the vendors. Like the scotch egg that couldn’t be done at room temperature, which made it horrible.
There was food at the TUM that got compromised due to things that they were implementing with the vendors. Like the scotch egg that couldn’t be done at room temperature, which made it horrible.
AVILES
Which is traditional.
Which is traditional.
RICHMOND
And she totally failed because of it.
And she totally failed because of it.
MINTZ
See, now I’m glad I didn’t have the scotch egg.
See, now I’m glad I didn’t have the scotch egg.
MORONEY
That’s the one thing that I really want to introduce to my stand for breakfast. You put a hardboiled egg, wrapped with bacon and then you put it into a cheese muffin.
That’s the one thing that I really want to introduce to my stand for breakfast. You put a hardboiled egg, wrapped with bacon and then you put it into a cheese muffin.
HAWKINS
And if I were doing it in a restaurant, I could do it. and I could serve it at room temperature. Because I could show them the time and temperature logs and storage conditions. But they just make the assumptions that you can’t do it under those limited conditions.
And if I were doing it in a restaurant, I could do it. and I could serve it at room temperature. Because I could show them the time and temperature logs and storage conditions. But they just make the assumptions that you can’t do it under those limited conditions.
TOOKE
I respect that but you need a grey area.
I respect that but you need a grey area.
MORONEY
But then we also need people to not constantly say, ‘I’m going to sue you.’ We need grace.
But then we also need people to not constantly say, ‘I’m going to sue you.’ We need grace.
TOOKE
But the States is worse for ‘I’m going to sue you’ and they have great street food.
But the States is worse for ‘I’m going to sue you’ and they have great street food.
HAWKINS
No they don’t.
No they don’t.
MORONEY
They don’t.
They don’t.
3. THAT’S NOT STREET FOOD
HAWKINS
They don’t have great street food.
They don’t have great street food.
AVILES
They have better street food than we do.
HAWKINS
No they don’t.
No they don’t.
AVILES
Certain cities. Portland, New York.
HAWKINS
Listen, there is so much misunderstanding about the street food in the United States and Portland is a classic example.
Listen, there is so much misunderstanding about the street food in the United States and Portland is a classic example.
TOOKE
I’ve been there several times. Their street food is not that good.
I’ve been there several times. Their street food is not that good.
HAWKINS
It’s not street food. It’s a truck on a private parking lot. 99 percent of what people talk about, and they always talk about Portland, are trucks and trailers that have been parked on a private parking lot for 10 years and they’ve literally never moved. There are no wheels on them. And the cities have a sort of benign indifference to it. They’ve done that to get around the building codes and everything else. It was a unique circumstance in Portland. The economy was going to hell. They had vast amounts of space, parking lots that were development sites that were never going to get built on and had no cars parking on them. And this evolved and has turned into everybody’s holy grail.
It’s not street food. It’s a truck on a private parking lot. 99 percent of what people talk about, and they always talk about Portland, are trucks and trailers that have been parked on a private parking lot for 10 years and they’ve literally never moved. There are no wheels on them. And the cities have a sort of benign indifference to it. They’ve done that to get around the building codes and everything else. It was a unique circumstance in Portland. The economy was going to hell. They had vast amounts of space, parking lots that were development sites that were never going to get built on and had no cars parking on them. And this evolved and has turned into everybody’s holy grail.
AVILES
There are other cites too.
There are other cites too.
HAWKINS
No there aren’t. Chicago, New York.
TOOKE
Chicago has no street food.
Chicago has no street food.
HAWKINS
New York hasn’t figured it out. Miami again, it’s all private sector. It’s parking lots …
New York hasn’t figured it out. Miami again, it’s all private sector. It’s parking lots …
RICHMOND
The first time I went to Portland I all, ‘cool, streetfood.’ But first of all, most of it’s not exciting. And second of all, it’s not street food. It’s a restaurant in a box.
The first time I went to Portland I all, ‘cool, streetfood.’ But first of all, most of it’s not exciting. And second of all, it’s not street food. It’s a restaurant in a box.
HAWKINS
I would love to have more diversity. I would love to have the entrepreneurial opportunities that it affords people in the restaurant business, the fact that you can get a start-up for $75,000 or less, and literally be up in business in six weeks, not six months or six years. But to think that it’s happening in a lot of other cities, and not here in Toronto, is a misnomer.
I would love to have more diversity. I would love to have the entrepreneurial opportunities that it affords people in the restaurant business, the fact that you can get a start-up for $75,000 or less, and literally be up in business in six weeks, not six months or six years. But to think that it’s happening in a lot of other cities, and not here in Toronto, is a misnomer.
MINTZ
I remember, maybe I read wrong, but I read your report, cover to cover. And I thought that you had said that you’d looked at other cities and they were, I think you said, supporting the sort of entrepreneurial idea and spirit that is necessary to foster these businesses.
TOOKE
If a food truck is not street food than what is street food?
If a food truck is not street food than what is street food?
MORONEY
That’s what I’m confused about too.
That’s what I’m confused about too.
HAWKINS
Street trucks that are moving around are in fact street food. There are a lot of cities that are looking at it. And they’re struggling to find the right way to introduce …
Street trucks that are moving around are in fact street food. There are a lot of cities that are looking at it. And they’re struggling to find the right way to introduce …
MINTZ
What cities are we talking about?
What cities are we talking about?
HAWKINS
New York, Chicago, Los Angeles, Miami, all the places that …
New York, Chicago, Los Angeles, Miami, all the places that …
AVILES
What about San Fran?
HAWKINS
San Francisco …
What about San Fran?
HAWKINS
San Francisco …
MORONEY
They’re pretty hard on their vendors. There’s a real charge to actually help their vendors. But in Oakland and San Francisco, it’s really hard. And that’s why the incubator kitchens have been so successful.
They’re pretty hard on their vendors. There’s a real charge to actually help their vendors. But in Oakland and San Francisco, it’s really hard. And that’s why the incubator kitchens have been so successful.
HAWKINS
The challenge with true street food, if you’re talking a truck parked on the road, is that you’re introducing one more thing into an already very overcrowded public realm. Look at our city and all the controversy around the bike lanes on Jarvis and traffic and the St. Clair street car line. And the fact is that our cities, a lot of the neighbourhoods, your street, is an urban design that’s 200 years old. It was designed for horses and carriages and little model T Fords. It wasn’t designed to introduce all these other active uses.
The challenge with true street food, if you’re talking a truck parked on the road, is that you’re introducing one more thing into an already very overcrowded public realm. Look at our city and all the controversy around the bike lanes on Jarvis and traffic and the St. Clair street car line. And the fact is that our cities, a lot of the neighbourhoods, your street, is an urban design that’s 200 years old. It was designed for horses and carriages and little model T Fords. It wasn’t designed to introduce all these other active uses.
TOOKE
Like having a place where 100 people line up.
Like having a place where 100 people line up.
HAWKINS
And a bike lane and a streetcar lane.
And a bike lane and a streetcar lane.
TOOKE
But still being able to drive up and park, there are places in this city, regardless of whether it’s a back alley or a parking lot, there are places to park.
But still being able to drive up and park, there are places in this city, regardless of whether it’s a back alley or a parking lot, there are places to park.
HAWKINS
And that’s what we were trying to get the city …
And that’s what we were trying to get the city …
MORONEY
It’s creativity.
It’s creativity.
HAWKINS
There’s one down the street by the library in the University. There’s a lay-by, on Bremner boulevard.
There’s one down the street by the library in the University. There’s a lay-by, on Bremner boulevard.
MINTZ
Or in front of the ROM.
Or in front of the ROM.
AHH
I don’t understand why that’s the definition, why it has to be moving. What about the shipping containers at Dundas and Bathurst?
I don’t understand why that’s the definition, why it has to be moving. What about the shipping containers at Dundas and Bathurst?
HAWKINS
It doesn’t have to be moving. All I’m saying is that the notion of street food is not permanent. All the action in the street food scene in North America is in trucks. It’s not in carts. So now you get to the question of where do I put it? And that’s the challenge. As Corey and I were just saying, there are places: the lay-by in front of the ROM; in front of Nathan Philips Square; in front of the Convention Centre; Bremner Boulevard; the Air Canada Centre. What really frustrates me is when we spend a lot of money and we design an urban space, like Young and Dundas square for example and we don’t design it …
It doesn’t have to be moving. All I’m saying is that the notion of street food is not permanent. All the action in the street food scene in North America is in trucks. It’s not in carts. So now you get to the question of where do I put it? And that’s the challenge. As Corey and I were just saying, there are places: the lay-by in front of the ROM; in front of Nathan Philips Square; in front of the Convention Centre; Bremner Boulevard; the Air Canada Centre. What really frustrates me is when we spend a lot of money and we design an urban space, like Young and Dundas square for example and we don’t design it …
MORONEY
With any lay-bys.
With any lay-bys.
HAWKINS
Or even for it to have any food facilities of any kind.
Or even for it to have any food facilities of any kind.
MINTZ
Well they’ve got a Jack Astor’s.
Well they’ve got a Jack Astor’s.
The first flatbread I rolled out. I know. It looks like Africa.
4. POOR A LA CARTE
HAWKINS
To come back to your point, I think that we will get to where you would like to be when …
AVILES
I don’t even know where I’d like to be. I just know it doesn’t make sense right now, financially, to start a business.
I don’t even know where I’d like to be. I just know it doesn’t make sense right now, financially, to start a business.
HAWKINS
I agree, there’s …
I agree, there’s …
AVILES
I’m not saying I have the answers. I do not have the answers. I provided an event space for people to start and luckily it’s been working for a couple vendors. And what happened in San Francisco, what Iso (Robbins) started, it really did rocket launch a couple businesses. And I hope that mine does too.
MORONEY
And I think you’re right for saying that you don’t have the answers. But you’ve provided the platform for people to express themselves. Most importantly is the pulse from the community, with the people that go, ‘I want it.’ So there’s the one-off events and then there’s the every day.
And I think you’re right for saying that you don’t have the answers. But you’ve provided the platform for people to express themselves. Most importantly is the pulse from the community, with the people that go, ‘I want it.’ So there’s the one-off events and then there’s the every day.
AVILES
I remember when this was brought up at that street vendor working group, and I think it’s a valid point. That’s a whole other animal and I respect that.
I remember when this was brought up at that street vendor working group, and I think it’s a valid point. That’s a whole other animal and I respect that.
MORONEY
What I want to get across is that I’m not anti-diversity. What I’m really upset about is John Fillion’s project of putting in the A La Carte program and completely skipping over the existing food industry, that had been going, ‘Hello?’ And then when you look at the whole system it was set up completely defined that, if it had succeeded, what would have happened is that, when we would have gone to renew our licenses, they would have said, ‘But you don’t operate under this new by-law.’ Because there was this hatred toward this industry.
What I want to get across is that I’m not anti-diversity. What I’m really upset about is John Fillion’s project of putting in the A La Carte program and completely skipping over the existing food industry, that had been going, ‘Hello?’ And then when you look at the whole system it was set up completely defined that, if it had succeeded, what would have happened is that, when we would have gone to renew our licenses, they would have said, ‘But you don’t operate under this new by-law.’ Because there was this hatred toward this industry.
MINTZ
But Fillion’s plan was never going to work.
But Fillion’s plan was never going to work.
HAWKINS
The food business, especially at the small restaurateur, food cart operator level, is as about as entrepreneurial as you can get. And North American government has all been driven by the policies of the industrial age. We are not entrepreneurial.
The food business, especially at the small restaurateur, food cart operator level, is as about as entrepreneurial as you can get. And North American government has all been driven by the policies of the industrial age. We are not entrepreneurial.
RICHMOND
Yes, small businesses can’t afford commercial spaces. So let’s implement something so that they can have space, so they can legally make this food and legally sell this food.
Yes, small businesses can’t afford commercial spaces. So let’s implement something so that they can have space, so they can legally make this food and legally sell this food.
HAWKINS
Oh man. Do you really want the city government to start building and operating coMORONEYercial kitchens?
RICHMOND
Without them doing that, we’re going to do it illegally. So it’s one or the other.
Without them doing that, we’re going to do it illegally. So it’s one or the other.
I don’t know about that but there needs to be some kind of middle ground.
5. FREE MARKET DICTATES STREET FOOD, BUT THE MARKET AIN’T FREE
HAWKINS
The street food business in North America, and really everywhere, is largely a reflection of economic conditions.
The street food business in North America, and really everywhere, is largely a reflection of economic conditions.
RICHMOND
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
HAWKINS
And I think the challenges that you’re facing now will probably be solved when somebody says, ‘I’ve seen what happened at the Distillery, at the Brickworks. My restaurant, my catering kitchen, my commissary, isn’t as busy as I’d like it to be. And I’ve seen this woman’s name now in the Star twice. And I’m going to contact her.’ I think the economy …
And I think the challenges that you’re facing now will probably be solved when somebody says, ‘I’ve seen what happened at the Distillery, at the Brickworks. My restaurant, my catering kitchen, my commissary, isn’t as busy as I’d like it to be. And I’ve seen this woman’s name now in the Star twice. And I’m going to contact her.’ I think the economy …
AVILES
It’s not just me … CSI has these meetings, and one of their projects, they call them hot kitchens, they’re trying to create a network of kitchens throughout the city, so that you can book a kitchen that isn’t busy on whatever day …
It’s not just me … CSI has these meetings, and one of their projects, they call them hot kitchens, they’re trying to create a network of kitchens throughout the city, so that you can book a kitchen that isn’t busy on whatever day …
HAWKINS
I think that’s a far better solution than going to city hall and saying …
I think that’s a far better solution than going to city hall and saying …
AVILES
I’m not saying they need to solve our problems. But there needs to be maybe a little flexibility.
I’m not saying they need to solve our problems. But there needs to be maybe a little flexibility.
HAWKINS
But the Public Health people are actually a lot more reasonable and knowledgeable than I think a lot of people give them credit for.
But the Public Health people are actually a lot more reasonable and knowledgeable than I think a lot of people give them credit for.
AVILES
They’ve been amazing. I’ve worked with them since the beginning. They’re incredible.
HAWKINS
I think that they are quite willing to work with people to find solutions.
They’ve been amazing. I’ve worked with them since the beginning. They’re incredible.
HAWKINS
I think that they are quite willing to work with people to find solutions.
6. HOW CAN WE MAKE THIS WORK?
HAWKINS
Tom Peters used to talk about, he had a term called skunkworks, that talked about how you innovate within a large bureaucracy. City governments are bureaucratic and they like square pegs and square holes and check the box. And that doesn’t work with creative industries. We’ve all heard so many times that the future of great cities is being able to attract the creative classes. So cities like New York, Chicago and Toronto, these big monolithic cities, are all going to have to get comfortable with the idea of being a little bit eclectic and unstructured and random and …
Tom Peters used to talk about, he had a term called skunkworks, that talked about how you innovate within a large bureaucracy. City governments are bureaucratic and they like square pegs and square holes and check the box. And that doesn’t work with creative industries. We’ve all heard so many times that the future of great cities is being able to attract the creative classes. So cities like New York, Chicago and Toronto, these big monolithic cities, are all going to have to get comfortable with the idea of being a little bit eclectic and unstructured and random and …
MORONEY
Smelly.
Smelly.
TOOKE
I was just going to say, do it illegally until they let you do it legally.
I was just going to say, do it illegally until they let you do it legally.
The demo version (for which I have more time to photograph)
HAWKINS
But I think that what Tom Peters argued is that you can do that within a bureaucratic system but you’ve got to kind of insulate the people from all the red tape and the nonsense. So if you want to find a way to make street food work then you’ve got to be prepared to try it, get a few people involved, a couple locations, and put up with the criticisms and give those people air cover. It’s the same whether you’re talking about supporting the performing arts, the creative arts or the culinary arts or anything that’s a creative class.
But I think that what Tom Peters argued is that you can do that within a bureaucratic system but you’ve got to kind of insulate the people from all the red tape and the nonsense. So if you want to find a way to make street food work then you’ve got to be prepared to try it, get a few people involved, a couple locations, and put up with the criticisms and give those people air cover. It’s the same whether you’re talking about supporting the performing arts, the creative arts or the culinary arts or anything that’s a creative class.
MORONEY
If you’re only looking at goal, it will fail. It’s process.
If you’re only looking at goal, it will fail. It’s process.
HAWKINS
In doing so, you expose all the sharp edges that need to be knocked off; this regulation, finding ways to work with the BIAs and work within the public realm. If you try and do it on too big a scale, which very often happens, there are people who look at it and say, ‘that’s unworkable,’ and they throw the baby under the bus. Or you end up with this overly bureaucratic process which is the antithesis of what you really wanted.
In doing so, you expose all the sharp edges that need to be knocked off; this regulation, finding ways to work with the BIAs and work within the public realm. If you try and do it on too big a scale, which very often happens, there are people who look at it and say, ‘that’s unworkable,’ and they throw the baby under the bus. Or you end up with this overly bureaucratic process which is the antithesis of what you really wanted.
GOLDSBIE
How do you think they are able to make Nuit Blanche work? It’s not a food event, but it’s still …
How do you think they are able to make Nuit Blanche work? It’s not a food event, but it’s still …
RICHMOND
My point is you can still adhere to all these laws and Public Health and prepare your stuff in a certain way and hold it in a certain way, but let’s get rid of laws like, you can only serve hot dogs and fries. That doesn’t make sense. Why is that in place?\
My point is you can still adhere to all these laws and Public Health and prepare your stuff in a certain way and hold it in a certain way, but let’s get rid of laws like, you can only serve hot dogs and fries. That doesn’t make sense. Why is that in place?\
I got to used up all the different batches of pork belly in the freezer.
MORONEY
Let’s go with Jonathan’s first. Nuit Blanche works because it’s a one-day event. If each one of these events were able to run for 6, 10 or 15 days, you would see huge problems with the running and the systems.
Let’s go with Jonathan’s first. Nuit Blanche works because it’s a one-day event. If each one of these events were able to run for 6, 10 or 15 days, you would see huge problems with the running and the systems.
HAWKINS
But if we peel back Nuit Blanche and ask why is it working. It’s working because it had champions. It had public funding.
But if we peel back Nuit Blanche and ask why is it working. It’s working because it had champions. It had public funding.
RICHMOND
Private funding too.
Private funding too.
Yes. The public champions not only provided the financial support but they went to all the people that they had influence over — the agencies, boards and commissions — and said, we expect you to support it. Casa Loma, Harbour Front, we expect you to provide support. And then they allowed the content of it to be developed by creative people. So in a sense it was a bit of a skunkworks. We copied from somebody else. That’s another reason.
7. CHURROS
… I’m explaining how I resisted following the flatbread recipe that said to add boiling water to the dough.
… I’m explaining how I resisted following the flatbread recipe that said to add boiling water to the dough.
RICHMOND
Churros are the same with the boiling water.
Churros are the same with the boiling water.
MINTZ
So maybe I should have added it.
So maybe I should have added it.
TOOKE
I’ve been trying to get the churro recipe down. You know what you need for the churro recipe?
RICHMOND
The gun. I got one in Miami. You know what you need, is the gun that has the middle pin …
I’ve been trying to get the churro recipe down. You know what you need for the churro recipe?
RICHMOND
The gun. I got one in Miami. You know what you need, is the gun that has the middle pin …
TOOKE
That hollows out the centre. I got the one that doesn’t have that. And every time the middle is gooey. And I’m like, what am I doing wrong?
That hollows out the centre. I got the one that doesn’t have that. And every time the middle is gooey. And I’m like, what am I doing wrong?
RICHMOND
That’s it. Because I’ve been trying to spoon them out.
That’s it. Because I’ve been trying to spoon them out.
AVILES
Don’t. It’s disgusting. I refuse to eat it. I’m Chilean. This is not a churro.
Don’t. It’s disgusting. I refuse to eat it. I’m Chilean. This is not a churro.
RICHMOND
The centre would not …
The centre would not …
AVILES
Terrible.
Terrible.
RICHMOND
… the flour …
… the flour …
AVILES
Not a churro.
Not a churro.
TOOKE
One night I spent, I ate probably ten pounds of churros. All night. And I was like, oh god, I can’t eat another churro.
One night I spent, I ate probably ten pounds of churros. All night. And I was like, oh god, I can’t eat another churro.
AVILES
There’s a churro competition, next weekend.
There’s a churro competition, next weekend.
I was like, this churro recipe has to be right. You get them everywhere. It can’t be that hard. By two in the morning I was making little guys and still asking, what am I doing wrong. And I went to the Mexican market and asked, ‘What am I doing wrong?’ And I look down and he’s got the centre piece that I don’t have.
8. THE WORKING GROUP
MINTZ
Is this working group making a list of concrete proposals that will be voted on by council?
MORONEY
No, it’s not voted on. These are … actually, this is a bullshit group that was proposed to acquiesce a lot of groups.
No, it’s not voted on. These are … actually, this is a bullshit group that was proposed to acquiesce a lot of groups.
GOLDSBIE
Most working groups are.
Most working groups are.
It was meant to soothe the skin of a lot of people that were really charged. The first thing that I wrote on my paper on the very first day was, ‘We have no pull.’ We have no voice.
NOTE: At city hall, on shark fin day, I met Bruce Robertson, director of Licensing. He assured me that the group's ideas would be folded into a proposal for counsel to vote on, but that it would need a champion on council floor.
Journalism 101: Always leave a recording device next to a bowl of fried chicken.
You can read Cameron Hawkins report on Toronto's street food here.
Date of Publication: Saturday, November 5th, 2011
1 comments:
To the question of whether NY has great street food, well, I don't think anyone would argue that the ubiquitous dirty-water-dogs and stale pretzels are terribly exciting, but I used to live in Red Hook, Brooklyn, and still reminisce about how great this was: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/23/dining/reviews/23unde.html?pagewanted=all Best Street Food Ever, for sure.
Post a Comment