Status: FED
· Eggplant Parmesan
· Scallop + Pork Belly (bourbon) + Sauteed Cabbage (coriander) + Pumpkin Sauce (cinnamon, nutmeg, maple syrup)
· Tri-Tip Roast + Roast Carrots & Parsnips + Brussels Sprouts & Smoked Fat
· Chocolate-Hazelnut Roll from Soma
Guest #101.1: Mark Reid
Occupation: partner, designer and landscape architect at Urban strategies
Contributed: Suoi 2006 Barolo
Sent thank-you: email
Guest #101.2: Ivor Tossell
Occupation: writer, columnist for Toronto Standard, Globe & Mail
Contributed: Lehman 2009 Shiraz
Sent thank-you: email
Guest #101.3: Jonathan Goldsbie
Occupation: troublemaker, columnist for National Post, mayoral stalker for The Grid
Contributed: Angels Gate 2009 Riesling
Sent thank-you: cheese in my mailbox
Guest #101.4: Brigitte Noel
Contributed: FUDGE
Sent thank-you: card in the mail
1. CITY JENGA or NEIGHBOURHOOD DEVELOPMENT: CAPITALISM VS. REGULATION
TOSSELL
So is Urban Strategies consulting with the BIA?
So is Urban Strategies consulting with the BIA?
REID
No, Yvonne asked me to come just because it’s sort of my background. Heritage conservation district studies are not my specialty. But I’ve worked in those locations in different cities. Basically she just invited me to come and share my perspective. I’m not sure what the community’s goals are or specific business folks’ goals. But from my sense, and stepping back having some conversations with Adam Vaughan, I think the developer community, prior to the tank in the economy …
No, Yvonne asked me to come just because it’s sort of my background. Heritage conservation district studies are not my specialty. But I’ve worked in those locations in different cities. Basically she just invited me to come and share my perspective. I’m not sure what the community’s goals are or specific business folks’ goals. But from my sense, and stepping back having some conversations with Adam Vaughan, I think the developer community, prior to the tank in the economy …
GOLDSBIE
Which one?
REID
The one that we’re now double-dipping into. I think he would have been aware of a lot of development interest that was probably, from his perspective, too much. And I think there probably is a need to figure out a vision for Kensington over the longer term. No place ever stays the same and no place should stay the same.
Which one?
REID
The one that we’re now double-dipping into. I think he would have been aware of a lot of development interest that was probably, from his perspective, too much. And I think there probably is a need to figure out a vision for Kensington over the longer term. No place ever stays the same and no place should stay the same.
TOSSELL
They’re busy fighting, and I believe this is a matter of public record, U of T’s stuff on College.
They’re busy fighting, and I believe this is a matter of public record, U of T’s stuff on College.
REID
That horrible piece of shit. Which is really shocking that it’s coming forward, attached to the university.
That horrible piece of shit. Which is really shocking that it’s coming forward, attached to the university.
MINTZ
Which building is this?
REID
It’s a 45-storey tower that’s proposed that’s probably less than a hundred metres from your house.
Which building is this?
REID
It’s a 45-storey tower that’s proposed that’s probably less than a hundred metres from your house.
GOLDSBIE
Southeast corner of College and Spadina, where the U of T press building is, halfway in that block.
Southeast corner of College and Spadina, where the U of T press building is, halfway in that block.
TOSSELL
You’d be well-positioned to scream blue murder about shadow impacts on your balcony.
You’d be well-positioned to scream blue murder about shadow impacts on your balcony.
GOLDSBIE
Basically it’s a huge tower that will set a precedent for the entire area.
Basically it’s a huge tower that will set a precedent for the entire area.
REID
That’s the real issue I think.
That’s the real issue I think.
GOLDSBIE
It’s a commercial development that somehow got U of T aboard because it’s going to make a private residence …
It’s a commercial development that somehow got U of T aboard because it’s going to make a private residence …
REID
Aimed at students.
Aimed at students.
TOSSELL
Students that are probably coming from abroad, I think is the idea.
Students that are probably coming from abroad, I think is the idea.
REID
It’s 45 stories. I can’t remember the unit-count but it’s astronomical. It would be like one building that housed 1200 to 1500 students.
It’s 45 stories. I can’t remember the unit-count but it’s astronomical. It would be like one building that housed 1200 to 1500 students.
MINTZ
And isn’t that a consistent growing need for the university?
REID
I think accommodating students is a growing need. But it’s the form and the precedent that you set for a neighbourhood.
And isn’t that a consistent growing need for the university?
REID
I think accommodating students is a growing need. But it’s the form and the precedent that you set for a neighbourhood.
TOSSELL
Would I be mistaken in thinking that if that thing went through, it would be open season on any property in the area?
REID
That’s exactly right. And there are some really large properties. The Buddhist temple site is huge. So you could see a complex of towers. And the development community would actually not go under 45, if that were approved. They’d go up. In the whole city of Toronto that’s what’s happening. Because there isn’t enough control and so much precedent has now been set. I think it’s a bit problematic.
Would I be mistaken in thinking that if that thing went through, it would be open season on any property in the area?
REID
That’s exactly right. And there are some really large properties. The Buddhist temple site is huge. So you could see a complex of towers. And the development community would actually not go under 45, if that were approved. They’d go up. In the whole city of Toronto that’s what’s happening. Because there isn’t enough control and so much precedent has now been set. I think it’s a bit problematic.
TOSSELL
So is this thing destined to go to the OMB?
So is this thing destined to go to the OMB?
REID
It depends. The city has done a tall building study for the downtown. But without enough regulation, there are too many behind closed door deals. That’s why we’ve ended up with this situation. There is no limit now. We even have clients that come to us. They’re developers and they say, ‘what should I be aiming at?’ And we’re having a difficult time telling them. We as a professional planning firm shouldn’t be in that position. It’s open season on density.
It depends. The city has done a tall building study for the downtown. But without enough regulation, there are too many behind closed door deals. That’s why we’ve ended up with this situation. There is no limit now. We even have clients that come to us. They’re developers and they say, ‘what should I be aiming at?’ And we’re having a difficult time telling them. We as a professional planning firm shouldn’t be in that position. It’s open season on density.
TOSSELL
What would we be aiming at, in terms of density, built form?
REID
Not built form. In terms of density. Incrementally, the TIFF building is one, there are a whole bunch. They’ve just gone higher and higher. And every time you establish new precedent. You can’t take it away.
What would we be aiming at, in terms of density, built form?
REID
Not built form. In terms of density. Incrementally, the TIFF building is one, there are a whole bunch. They’ve just gone higher and higher. And every time you establish new precedent. You can’t take it away.
TOSSELL
City building by Jenga.
City building by Jenga.
REID
It’s a relatively recent phenomena. I don’t know where it will go. If there are no serious controls put in place it will incrementally keep going.
It’s a relatively recent phenomena. I don’t know where it will go. If there are no serious controls put in place it will incrementally keep going.
TOSSELL
So what kind of form will these controls take. Are we talking about more absolute power given to the councilor? Are we talking about the OMB?
REID
Policy, which is a good thing because it has a process attached to it. So you actually create a theory about where tall things go, how tall they are, how they fit with adjacent neighbourhoods.
So what kind of form will these controls take. Are we talking about more absolute power given to the councilor? Are we talking about the OMB?
REID
Policy, which is a good thing because it has a process attached to it. So you actually create a theory about where tall things go, how tall they are, how they fit with adjacent neighbourhoods.
GOLDSBIE
How come the official plan didn’t have this?
REID
The official plan is very vague. It was intentionally vague. The previous commissioner of planning wanted it that way.
How come the official plan didn’t have this?
REID
The official plan is very vague. It was intentionally vague. The previous commissioner of planning wanted it that way.
…
Right now, there is no guidance for (council). And it’s just this free for all, I think. In terms of, ‘How can I sell this to my community?’ What community facility are you planning to deliver with this? Etc. And I think the development community, even though they say they don’t want those controls, I think they want more certainty. Because I think they feel they’re being taken, at gunpoint, to the community, to deliver some of these things. It’s a situation that isn’t working for either side.
2. WHY A KENSINGTON HERITAGE CONSERVATION DISTRICT?
REID
Heritage Conservation Districts are the strongest policy tool under the provincial policy act. Caveat: I am and urban designer. I’m not a registered planner. I work with a bunch of designers who are very talented. So there are parts of the planning process that I’m familiar with and parts that I’m not. A Heritage Conservation District contains the strongest policies that are the least able to be overturned at the OMB.
Heritage Conservation Districts are the strongest policy tool under the provincial policy act. Caveat: I am and urban designer. I’m not a registered planner. I work with a bunch of designers who are very talented. So there are parts of the planning process that I’m familiar with and parts that I’m not. A Heritage Conservation District contains the strongest policies that are the least able to be overturned at the OMB.
TOSSELL
And does that confer a heritage status to everything within that district?
REID
It depends on how you do it. There are a whole bunch of different categorizations of heritage you can do. You have to study the area. What’s important about it? What are the elements you want to preserve? So you would cast those as almost sacrosanct. So in Kensington for example, Kensington Street has got lots of interesting stuff on it: the individual houses that are all painted different colours; where all the funky stuff is; the meat and guts of Kensington. You could make a solid argument that that should be preserved. So it’s very hard to remove those structures within a Heritage Conservation District. The trick then becomes, what do you do with some of the bigger sites? There’s a parking lot in there. There are some other large sites. What’s the theory about those? And Under a Heritage Conservation process the temptation might be, ‘Well let’s just make it the same.’ And I don’t know if that’s the right approach.
And does that confer a heritage status to everything within that district?
REID
It depends on how you do it. There are a whole bunch of different categorizations of heritage you can do. You have to study the area. What’s important about it? What are the elements you want to preserve? So you would cast those as almost sacrosanct. So in Kensington for example, Kensington Street has got lots of interesting stuff on it: the individual houses that are all painted different colours; where all the funky stuff is; the meat and guts of Kensington. You could make a solid argument that that should be preserved. So it’s very hard to remove those structures within a Heritage Conservation District. The trick then becomes, what do you do with some of the bigger sites? There’s a parking lot in there. There are some other large sites. What’s the theory about those? And Under a Heritage Conservation process the temptation might be, ‘Well let’s just make it the same.’ And I don’t know if that’s the right approach.
TOSSELL
To force people to build more of the same?
REID
Well we don’t know how to build that heritage anymore. We can’t replicate it in an authentic way. So it would be cheap replications, which I don’t think is any good either.
To force people to build more of the same?
REID
Well we don’t know how to build that heritage anymore. We can’t replicate it in an authentic way. So it would be cheap replications, which I don’t think is any good either.
3. HOW WOULD YOU BUILD KENSINGTON?
TOSSELL
If you were going to build in Kensington, assuming you had carte blanche …
If you were going to build in Kensington, assuming you had carte blanche …
REID
Which you never would.
Which you never would.
TOSSELL
… which you never would. What would your approach be in a place like that where you can’t replicate?
REID
With Kensington as well as any other community, I think you actually have to have a process that’s public, that looks at what the opportunity areas are and undertakes a testing, in terms of, ‘We could do it this way, or this way. What do you guys think?’ Here are some of the benefits in terms of adding more people to live in the market. Here are some of the benefits in terms of business benefits. You get more support for local businesses. So I think that whole process, which is a visioning and an options and a design exploration that’s public.
With Kensington as well as any other community, I think you actually have to have a process that’s public, that looks at what the opportunity areas are and undertakes a testing, in terms of, ‘We could do it this way, or this way. What do you guys think?’ Here are some of the benefits in terms of adding more people to live in the market. Here are some of the benefits in terms of business benefits. You get more support for local businesses. So I think that whole process, which is a visioning and an options and a design exploration that’s public.
MINTZ
How does that public consultation take place?
How does that public consultation take place?
REID
The way we typically do it, we work closely with the community leaders and the councilor. You establish a program, which is regular public consultations at key milestones through the process. And you structure it in terms of setting a stage and a framework of, ‘Here’s what we’ve learned. Tell us whether we’re right or we’re wrong. Tell us if we could look at adding things.’
The way we typically do it, we work closely with the community leaders and the councilor. You establish a program, which is regular public consultations at key milestones through the process. And you structure it in terms of setting a stage and a framework of, ‘Here’s what we’ve learned. Tell us whether we’re right or we’re wrong. Tell us if we could look at adding things.’
MINTZ
Am I wrong in my presumption that, when you ask people what they want, that the public or the community hates everything except for lower taxes?
REID
I don’t think so.
Am I wrong in my presumption that, when you ask people what they want, that the public or the community hates everything except for lower taxes?
REID
I don’t think so.
GOLDSBIE
One can hate everything except for change.
REID
But Kensington is always changing.
But Kensington is always changing.
GOLDSBIE
It’s always changing. It’s always been gentrifying. I think you could argue that it has accelerated in the past five years.
It’s always changing. It’s always been gentrifying. I think you could argue that it has accelerated in the past five years.
MINTZ
Some of it for the better.
Some of it for the better.
REID
I think, really good things.
I think, really good things.
MINTZ
Up to and including yesterday, with the opening of Derek’s charcuterie shop.
Up to and including yesterday, with the opening of Derek’s charcuterie shop.
TOSSELL
What’s your favourite part of New Kensington?
GOLDSBIE
My favourite thing about Kensington has been the balance between the old and the new and the fact that both have managed to coexist really well. I felt up until recently there was a really good balance, but finally it’s started to tip.
What’s your favourite part of New Kensington?
GOLDSBIE
My favourite thing about Kensington has been the balance between the old and the new and the fact that both have managed to coexist really well. I felt up until recently there was a really good balance, but finally it’s started to tip.
The question anywhere is, not how do you stop change, but how do you manage it?
TOSSELL
You’re talking about it like a disease.
You’re talking about it like a disease.
REID
See I don’t know if you can manage that.
See I don’t know if you can manage that.
GOLDSBIE
No. But the idea of a conservation district is to try to keep whatever comes next, from totally uprooting the things about it that are good.
No. But the idea of a conservation district is to try to keep whatever comes next, from totally uprooting the things about it that are good.
REID
I think change for the market is good. I don’t think you can try and put a big blanket of formaldehyde on anything and try to keep it there. Then it just stagnates.
I think change for the market is good. I don’t think you can try and put a big blanket of formaldehyde on anything and try to keep it there. Then it just stagnates.
TOSSELL
In a conservation district they can do crazy things like in Sane Jose, you can’t change the finishes, …
REID
That’s the one thing I worry about. Because I’ve seen heritage conservation districts where you have to have leaded paint, or these are the nine colours you can paint your window moldings. So it needs to be carefully thought through, especially in this community. This community doesn’t like to be dictated to. This is a very innovative, creative community and that should be encouraged.
That’s the one thing I worry about. Because I’ve seen heritage conservation districts where you have to have leaded paint, or these are the nine colours you can paint your window moldings. So it needs to be carefully thought through, especially in this community. This community doesn’t like to be dictated to. This is a very innovative, creative community and that should be encouraged.
GOLDSBIE
I imagine one of the concerns about the heritage conservation district is similar to the concerns around making the market pedestrian only all the time, where there have been opportunities to do in the past several years. The concern around that is by making pedestrian Sunday every day, it would catalyze the gentrification. It would raise rents like in other places.
I imagine one of the concerns about the heritage conservation district is similar to the concerns around making the market pedestrian only all the time, where there have been opportunities to do in the past several years. The concern around that is by making pedestrian Sunday every day, it would catalyze the gentrification. It would raise rents like in other places.
TOSSELL
It would also cut into the livelihood of the place. It would impede the delivery of goods and services. It would turn it into a kind of Distillery type, cobblestone, too twee …
It would also cut into the livelihood of the place. It would impede the delivery of goods and services. It would turn it into a kind of Distillery type, cobblestone, too twee …
GOLDSBIE
Exactly. What makes the market work now is that, similar to when there were calls for St. George to be closed down for cars, rather than designate something as a special district, the fact that it is a district that works, the balance between pedestrians, cyclists and motorists, is already pretty exquisite in the market, as good as you’ll find anywhere in the city.
Exactly. What makes the market work now is that, similar to when there were calls for St. George to be closed down for cars, rather than designate something as a special district, the fact that it is a district that works, the balance between pedestrians, cyclists and motorists, is already pretty exquisite in the market, as good as you’ll find anywhere in the city.
REID
There are really good examples of commercial districts that have shut right down once they got rid of cars. Because you can’t drop people off, you don’t have parking in front of the shops. Ottawa’s got a really good example of that.
There are really good examples of commercial districts that have shut right down once they got rid of cars. Because you can’t drop people off, you don’t have parking in front of the shops. Ottawa’s got a really good example of that.
NOEL
Sparks Street?
REID
Yes. The Spark Street Mall.
Sparks Street?
REID
Yes. The Spark Street Mall.
TOSSELL
It’s windswept.
It’s windswept.
NOEL
There’s no business there.
There’s no business there.
MINTZ
What was it like before they did that?
REID
It was healthy before they made it into pedestrian only.
What was it like before they did that?
REID
It was healthy before they made it into pedestrian only.
NOEL
And they still tout it as one of the most vibrant areas of Ottawa.
And they still tout it as one of the most vibrant areas of Ottawa.
REID
Part of it is because the Feds have one side of the street so they put all their crappy, excuse me, their …
Part of it is because the Feds have one side of the street so they put all their crappy, excuse me, their …
TOSSELL
Nothing says street life like bureaucracy.
Nothing says street life like bureaucracy.
REID
The Byward market is a good example for Kensington to look at. It’s made up of two and three storey things that are old and five storey things that are new.
The Byward market is a good example for Kensington to look at. It’s made up of two and three storey things that are old and five storey things that are new.
TOSSELL
It’s got a lot more real estate to work with though.
3. I ALWAYS WANTED TO LIVE IN ETOBICOKE
REID
What I’ve seen in the market is, businesses have started to get younger. More entrepreneurial folks have started to move in there. This introduction of new blood, new thinking, new products, the new butcher that’s in there is fantastic. I think those are great examples of, how do you do an authentic market in the new millennium. And I think we’ll see more of that.
TOSSELL
But is authentic a by-word for upscale specialty or is there a role for general merchants?
But is authentic a by-word for upscale specialty or is there a role for general merchants?
REID
Why do we worry about that? Why can’t there be … ?
GOLDSBIE
It’s a slippery …
Why do we worry about that? Why can’t there be … ?
GOLDSBIE
It’s a slippery …
TOSSELL
Without falling down the authenticity hole, because we could argue that in circles, why I worry about that is because different kinds of economic activities are exclusionary. If it becomes like the distillery, there’s nothing, or not much, in the distillery for a student.
Without falling down the authenticity hole, because we could argue that in circles, why I worry about that is because different kinds of economic activities are exclusionary. If it becomes like the distillery, there’s nothing, or not much, in the distillery for a student.
REID
There are lots of students that go there for dates. I don’t get this exclusionary thing at all. I think we live in a city that has a cross section of people of different incomes. We have some high streets where there is some very expensive real estate, Bloor and Queen. Queen has the highest real estate rent in our entire city.
There are lots of students that go there for dates. I don’t get this exclusionary thing at all. I think we live in a city that has a cross section of people of different incomes. We have some high streets where there is some very expensive real estate, Bloor and Queen. Queen has the highest real estate rent in our entire city.
GOLDSBIE
Which stretch are we talking about?
REID
The stretch between Spadina and close to University.
Which stretch are we talking about?
REID
The stretch between Spadina and close to University.
GOLDSBIE
That stretch is horrible. It’s basically the Eaton Centre without cover from snow.
That stretch is horrible. It’s basically the Eaton Centre without cover from snow.
REID
But it’s still really high real estate.
GOLDSBIE
Oh I know it’s high. But that’s not something to emulate.
Oh I know it’s high. But that’s not something to emulate.
REID
I’m not saying emulate it. I’m saying, we live in a diverse place that should offer high value, low value, medium value. It can be all over and it can actually be in the same district.
I’m not saying emulate it. I’m saying, we live in a diverse place that should offer high value, low value, medium value. It can be all over and it can actually be in the same district.
MINTZ
The neighbourhood you just defined is where they’ve already implemented a heritage status to the buildings.
The neighbourhood you just defined is where they’ve already implemented a heritage status to the buildings.
REID
Yeah. To keep it at no more than, I think it’s four stories. I think that’s a good theory, to keep intact the heritage fabric that we have, that distinguishes us from Mississauga, from Vaughn, from Markham. I chose to live in Toronto because of that component and I don’t want to see it all evaporate.
Yeah. To keep it at no more than, I think it’s four stories. I think that’s a good theory, to keep intact the heritage fabric that we have, that distinguishes us from Mississauga, from Vaughn, from Markham. I chose to live in Toronto because of that component and I don’t want to see it all evaporate.
MINTZ
I always wanted to live in Etobicoke and I only moved here, waiting for it to finally become that.
I always wanted to live in Etobicoke and I only moved here, waiting for it to finally become that.
REID
I think our city needs to be much more proactive in terms of preserving the things that make us distinct, figuring how to preserve it, but also how to add to it in an intelligent and careful way.
I think our city needs to be much more proactive in terms of preserving the things that make us distinct, figuring how to preserve it, but also how to add to it in an intelligent and careful way.
Kensington, to me, has always had this debate, over gentrification. This is what it always comes down to. I’m a firm believer that you can’t stop change; that you should get in front of it and plan for it. Taxes are going to go up. Neighbourhoods are going to change. We should be really worried if they start to decline. We should be happy if they remain stable or they get better.
I think the trick is in how you deliver it, what you share with the community in terms of what the benefits could be. We define some very specific areas that we are hoping to preserve. We define some other areas that could change and we explore how and what that change should be. And we should try to achieve something in the end that is a plan and an action strategy and maybe a phased implementation plan that will benefit all the business, the safety of the market, the people living around the market, the people who use it every day. I think that as a reasonable departure point could be really good. But it needs to be handled. I believe, for Kensington, there needs to be outside professional consultants that come in to help facilitate and manage that process.
TOSSELL
There’s such a duality about the market as far as it’s such a tight-knit community on the inside and there’s such a sense of ownership from those that work there. And yet at the same time it’s also very much the property of the city. And at the same time it has this funny, public, crown jewel status, sort of deserved, sort of not, sort of overplayed. But y’know, when Richard Florida comes to town, let’s send him to Kensington so he can discover it for all of us.
There’s such a duality about the market as far as it’s such a tight-knit community on the inside and there’s such a sense of ownership from those that work there. And yet at the same time it’s also very much the property of the city. And at the same time it has this funny, public, crown jewel status, sort of deserved, sort of not, sort of overplayed. But y’know, when Richard Florida comes to town, let’s send him to Kensington so he can discover it for all of us.
REID
It really breaks all the rules, for planners. It breaks zoning code. It breaks all sorts of typical planning regulations that you would try to put in place. Because it’s evolved without all those controls. And that’s one of the things that makes it great.
It really breaks all the rules, for planners. It breaks zoning code. It breaks all sorts of typical planning regulations that you would try to put in place. Because it’s evolved without all those controls. And that’s one of the things that makes it great.
4. NO DEMOLISH TOOL IN HERITAGE STUDY
GOLDSBIE
You’ve done, not heritage conservation studies, but avenue street studies, on the Danforth. What was involved with that?
REID
They’re very similar. You start off with a project kick off, and usually these are led by the municipality so they’re our client group. But always, the people who come to your public meetings are also your clients. You do a lot of background research analysis, physical analysis, in the case of a heritage conservation, you probably have to define the typologies, building typologies, periods in which they were built that are important, the areas that are intact and the character areas. You probably end up with five to eight of them in Kensington. Then you would bring that background analysis to the public. Here are the areas we think might be right for preservation. Here are the areas where you might do incremental infill with very specific guidelines so that it fits in well without trying to replicate. And here are the areas that are larger opportunities, that we should collectively figure out what they should become and if we don’t, the development community will.
They’re very similar. You start off with a project kick off, and usually these are led by the municipality so they’re our client group. But always, the people who come to your public meetings are also your clients. You do a lot of background research analysis, physical analysis, in the case of a heritage conservation, you probably have to define the typologies, building typologies, periods in which they were built that are important, the areas that are intact and the character areas. You probably end up with five to eight of them in Kensington. Then you would bring that background analysis to the public. Here are the areas we think might be right for preservation. Here are the areas where you might do incremental infill with very specific guidelines so that it fits in well without trying to replicate. And here are the areas that are larger opportunities, that we should collectively figure out what they should become and if we don’t, the development community will.
Some communities think nothing would be appropriate. I did a study for the old village of Thornhill, which is a heritage conservation district. That was just hard. That community just didn’t want change at all and they couldn’t understand why the large strip mall couldn’t evolve into two and three storey house form structures. They didn’t make the connection in terms of the development market isn’t going to tear down a commercial strip mall and put up a two or three storey townhouse.
There’s so much Sim City mentality everywhere you go; why can’t we push the demolish tool?
5. IVOR SEES AMERICA
TOSSELL
I’m taking on off next week to drive across America. I’ve done it a couple times. I do this thing where I take a snowbird’s car.
I’m taking on off next week to drive across America. I’ve done it a couple times. I do this thing where I take a snowbird’s car.
REID
Which?
TOSSELL
A retiree’s car. They’re wintering in Florida or California and they don’t want to buy a car for six months. So if you want to drive across the county …
Which?
TOSSELL
A retiree’s car. They’re wintering in Florida or California and they don’t want to buy a car for six months. So if you want to drive across the county …
NOEL
How did you get into that?
TOSSELL
Toronto Star Classified ad. Previous times I’ve gone across to California or Arizona. This time I’m going on a shorter drive. Never really seen the southeast so I’m going down to Florida this time. You’ve got a limited time frame. Really it’s work. Because you’ve got to get that car there, to meet them at the plane when they get off. You’re sort of supposed to stick to the interstates. But if you do you’ll go nuts. So the trick is to try to figure out how you’ll cut corners across interstates, keep the mileage down but still see a bit of America that’s interesting. So you end up seeing an awful lot of small towns, well, small cities, between 15,000 and 75,000 that you’ve just never heard of. And it’s really fascinating to go through them because the consistency of the way that small urban forms have evolved across north America, is so consistent whether you’re in southern Ontario, or northern Ontario, where I come from, or Nebraska. It’s a strip mall, and then you get down to the inside and it’s like the thing of sand that makes a pearl. There’s always little clusters, an old main street, every one that dates back to the turn of the century. And you ask, why is this town here? And there’s always a large industrial thing, some large, non-descript object on the edge of town that at one point, in the past, used to employ 1000 or 3000 blue collar workers. And now it’s just this hulking object on the prairie skyline. And this replicates itself across the entire continent and I find it fascinating. Those main streets are a fixed point. They were built when they were built.
How did you get into that?
TOSSELL
Toronto Star Classified ad. Previous times I’ve gone across to California or Arizona. This time I’m going on a shorter drive. Never really seen the southeast so I’m going down to Florida this time. You’ve got a limited time frame. Really it’s work. Because you’ve got to get that car there, to meet them at the plane when they get off. You’re sort of supposed to stick to the interstates. But if you do you’ll go nuts. So the trick is to try to figure out how you’ll cut corners across interstates, keep the mileage down but still see a bit of America that’s interesting. So you end up seeing an awful lot of small towns, well, small cities, between 15,000 and 75,000 that you’ve just never heard of. And it’s really fascinating to go through them because the consistency of the way that small urban forms have evolved across north America, is so consistent whether you’re in southern Ontario, or northern Ontario, where I come from, or Nebraska. It’s a strip mall, and then you get down to the inside and it’s like the thing of sand that makes a pearl. There’s always little clusters, an old main street, every one that dates back to the turn of the century. And you ask, why is this town here? And there’s always a large industrial thing, some large, non-descript object on the edge of town that at one point, in the past, used to employ 1000 or 3000 blue collar workers. And now it’s just this hulking object on the prairie skyline. And this replicates itself across the entire continent and I find it fascinating. Those main streets are a fixed point. They were built when they were built.
REID
But increasingly, in our business, we find that people want the characteristics of that to come forward again, and replace the environments that we’re seeing being built today.
But increasingly, in our business, we find that people want the characteristics of that to come forward again, and replace the environments that we’re seeing being built today.
TOSSELL
When you say people, are you talking about residents, or are you talking about people in the development community?
When you say people, are you talking about residents, or are you talking about people in the development community?
We’ve seen developers move in that direction as well, but it’s really people. People who come out to public events. They’re looking for more quality urban places, a Main Street. They’re tired of shopping malls. They like the convenience, believe me. And they like the affordability of these things. But they also want the other. So I think over time we’ll see these things evolve into more urban places.
And then Ivor was like, "Guys, ... Steve Jobs just died".
And everyone got on their phones.
First they read their phones as individuals ...
... and then as a group.
Date of publication: Saturday, October 22nd, 2011
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