FED #64 The Vegan Rabbi (Aaron Levy)

Status: FED

-Fennel + Navy Beans + Red Wine Vinegar + White Pepper

-Pappa al Pomodoro

Guest # 64.1: Rabbi Aaron Levy

Occupation: Rabbi, founder of Makom

Contributed: He helped cook. We ate his chocolate and drank his (kosher) wine.

Sent thank-you: email.

Guest #64.2: Miriam Kramer

Occupation: Director of the Canadian Education Project

Contributed: The dinner was in their house. I did very little for this one.

Sent thank-you: see above.

Guest #64.3: Lisan “The Jutras” Jutras

Occupation: Editor at The Globe & Mail (booooo)

Contributed: two bottles, one kosher and one Germen Riesling

Sent thank-you: email “'I've gone all over-analytical about the thank-you follow-up note since we discussed it at the dinner, and then the event itself was complicated by the fact that it wasn't at your house, but after much anguished back-and-forthing, I've decided to weight in with a thank you here.”

WHY IS MY VINEGAR NOT KOSHER?

RABBI LEVY
What’s that?

MINTZ
Vinegar

RABBI LEVY
So that’s actually a kashrut issue. You didn’t cook with it, did you?

MINTZ
I did not.

RABBI LEVY
Ok. Good. Red wine vinegar?

MINTZ
Yeah.

RABBI LEVY

Ok. I will switch it with some of ours.

MINTZ
And the olive oil’s ok?

RABBI LEVY

Olive oil’s fine. Because olive oil, extra virgin olive oil, is cold pressed.

MINTZ
So what is it about the process … ?

RABBI LEVY
Wine is something that needs to be kosher. So wine vinegar …

MINTZ
Because the fermenting process is similar to the cooking process?

RABBI LEVY
There’s sort of the technical issues of what could actually get into it. Also because, with wine, there are all sorts of refining agents and clarifying agents put in wine. Like when you have a bottle of wine, it’s not just fermented grape juice.

MINTZ
They use sulphites.

RABBI LEVY
They use clay. They can use animal fat, all sorts of things that go in there and attract impurities in the wine, then clump it up and remove them. So there’s a question of what could have gotten into the production of the wine and whether that would be kosher or not. But then also, because wine in Judaism is considered important, there are extra issues around it as well.

MINTZ
I dig.

BREAD & REALITY VS AUNT RENA

RABBI LEVY
So I don’t eat it[Harbord Bakery challah], not only because it’s not vegan. But also because it’s not a certified kosher place.

MINTZ
I brought a loaf once, as a gift for my brother. We were meeting at my aunt’s house. She asked me to take it out of the house. She saw my bread. She was polite about it, but asked me to take it out of the house.

JUTRAS
Why?

MINTZ
Because it wasn’t kosher.

RABBI LEVY
As long as it didn’t get eaten. There’s no rule in Jewish law, in halakhah, that would require that. That may have been her discomfort.

So, you brought a bottle of kosher wine, which we rejected on taste level.

JUTRAS
Without even opening it.

RABBI LEVY
And then the non-kosher wine, I didn’t say, get that the hell out of my house. I just said, ok, it’s going to sit on the table. We’re not drinking it.

JUTRAS
But, for someone from the outside, all the rules seem a bit arbitrary.

RABBINIC INTERPRETATION

KRAMER

The only kashrut stuff in Leviticus is the animals that you can and can’t eat and that you shouldn’t boil a kid in its mother’s milk. And all the other stuff is derived …

RABBI LEVY

In general, Jewish law, but this pertains to keeping kosher, as well, the Torah, so the first five books of Moses … interspersed in the narratives are laws. Those laws are the starting point for rabbinic interpretation, which generates many more laws, or specifics about how those laws should be observed, that then get debated and eventually codified. The practice of traditional Jewish life nowadays starts with the bible, but it’s not even predominately influenced but it. More by the rabbinic reformulations of those laws.

So about keeping the Sabbath. It says, don’t do any manner of work. Well, what’s work? It’s only in later rabbinic interpretation that it susses out, what does it mean, don’t do any work. And then, based on biblical interpretation, create 39 categories of work, that then get further subdivided …

MINTZ
This is my favourite part of Judaism.

JUTRAS
There’s a lot of organizing going on.

MINTZ
This is the Judaism I grew up with, the sport of categorizing the vagaries.

JUDAISM VS JEWISHNESS

RABBI LEVY

Even the language of faith and faithful is something that is very common and I think appropriate in Christian context. But it doesn’t translate so much to Jewish context. Because yes, there is certainly belief in theology in Judaism. But it almost plays second fiddle to practice and lifestyle.

KRAMER

And in some cases it’s completely irrelevant.

RABBI LEVY
For some people, yeah.

JUTRAS
For some people faith is irrelevant?

KRAMER
And dogma.

RABBI LEVY
Backing up for a step. Let’s say Corey, who’s taking photos of us [I am, as he speaks, taking photos]. So, Corey, do you believe in god? This is not a loaded question.

(laughs)

No no. I’m just using you as an example for something.

MINTZ
Do I believe in god? No.

RABBI LEVY
Fine. So, good. Well, for the purposes of this discussion, good.

JUTRAS
More room for us in heaven.

RABBI LEVY
You’re a Jew, yes?

MINTZ
Yes.

RABBI LEVY
So Corey says, I don’t believe in god, I’m a Jew. Now, if I asked a catholic friend, do you believe in god, or do you follow the teachings of the catholic church? If they say no, I say, are you a catholic? They’ll say, no, because I don’t believe in god or … or they might say, I’m a lapsed catholic or I’m an ex-catholic. But those two can’t go together. For Jews though, that’s not the case. Because being a jew is not purely about religious practice or belief or anything like that. It’s also about peoplehood.

I make the hand gesture, thumb rubbing against index and middle finger, that means “gimme money”.

RABBI LEVY
It’s also about anti-semitism. It’s about being a part of this extended Jewish family, slash ethnicity.

WHY I BECAME A RABBI

RABBI LEVY
I went to university. My plan was to go into neuro-psych research. I was a psychology major at Colombia. And I was also doing a BA at the Jewish theological seminary, a couple blocks up from Colombia. I was doing Jewish studies there, not with any intention of becoming a rabbi. I felt like I just wanted to get a stronger, intellectual Jewish education. I had a start of a Jewish education growing up. But not enough to make me feel like I was Jewishly, intellectually mature.

MINTZ
How religious are your parents?

RABBI LEVY
My parents are traditional. They affiliate with the conservative movement. Growing up, we would go to synagogue most Saturday mornings. We would drive to and from synagogue which, I don’t know if you’re aware, on the Sabbath, traditional prohibitions include driving. We might stop for shopping or stop for lunch on the way home.

So I grew up with a lot of positive Jewish involvement. But not necessarily within the context of comprehensive observance of Jewish law. I had a lot of exposure to things and interest in going deeper. And in high school I started becoming more observant.

When I was in my third year of university, I started realizing that psych research was very interesting, but based on my experiences working for psych labs for my summer or winter breaks, it was not what I wanted for the rest of my life. And at the same time, something that began for personal reasons, the Jewish studies thing, combined with some volunteer and part-time work that I was doing — working as a counselor and informal Jewish educator for high school students — was thrilling. I loved it. It just felt more personal and meaningful than psych research. So eventually it dawned on me that I could actually keep doing that and not as just a side thing, actually as a career. I became a rabbi. Because I love teaching and counseling and studying texts and helping people find meaning in them. So I decided to become a rabbi. And I went to school for a bunch more years to do that. So it wasn’t like I felt this divine calling or that I suddenly had a midnight revelation or something like that.

[I asked him why he became a vegan and he just answered, “ethical reasons”.]

DEAD FISH

RABBI LEVY
I’m a vegan. Miriam is a vegetarian, not exactly, who eats fish.

MINTZ
A pescatarian.

RABBI LEVY
Yes. Although, I’ve been fairly successful at keeping dead fish out of the home

KRAMER

I won that argument. Then I went to the fish store in Kensington market and brought home some sushi-grade tuna. And I was so excited. Then I got really grossed out, cooking it.

TUBISHVAT

RABBI LEVY
Tu Bishvat is the Jewish new year for trees, which is starting this coming Wednesday night through Thursday. Although initially, like in say biblical times and even later ancient times, this holiday was basically just the beginning of the fiscal calendar for tithing your fruit trees. It didn’t really have much ritual significance. But then starting in the 16^th century in the circle of Kabbalistic, Jewish mystics in northern Israel, they developed this whole mystical seder, a ritualized organized meal, to have on this day, that’s all about appreciating, celebrating and giving thanks for trees. And also using the tree as a symbol of wholeness and unity. So they developed this whole multi-stepped meal, with four cups of wine. The idea is you go through the four seasons, with four kinds of fruit. Well, you end up with three kinds of fruit and the fourth is a fragrance of fruit. So we’re having a Tubishvat seder this Wednesday night. And in addition to the Kabbalistic rituals, with fruits and nuts for each of the courses, we are looking at the idea of carbon emissions and our carbon footprints. The connection being that trees reduce C02, so should you. Especially because there’s, the religious tie-in for that is, there’s a verse in Deuteronomy that says, “for a human is like a tree of the field.” So that because one of the jumping off points for the mystical thing about it. But we’re taking it on a more literal level and saying, trees sequester carbon, what are we doing to sequester or reduce our own carbon footprints. So that will be the ecological component for the seder.

JUDAISM VS AGNOSTICISM

RABBI LEVY
So Miriam grew up orthodox …

KRAMER

But now, it’s not like we talk about god in this household. I mean, amongst ourselves if we’re having some heated theological debate, maybe. It’s more like an intellectual exercise. But it’s not like we talk about it with our kid.

RABBI LEVY

He’s not even four yet.

KRAMER

No. But when I was that age, Hashem — common parlance when you talk about, I think, a very difficult concept — it’s just there, whether or not you understand it. Because it’s an understood that this entity exists and is a force in the universe.

JUTRAS
Do you still think of Hashem that way?

KRAMER

No. I don’t believe in that kind of god or maybe not in any god at all. I’m not sure. To me it’s not relevant.

RABBI LEVY

Well, …

MINTZ
But you’re married to a rabbi.

KRAMER

We’re not the same person.

MINTZ
I know that. But if I wanted to send my kids to French immersion and my wife didn’t want to send the kids to French immersion, that’d be a big deal. We’d talk about that.

KRAMER

Yeah. So we talk about it. We don’t necessarily agree. Thankfully, because belief and practice can be separated, it makes it a little easier. And also there’s a level of compromise that you have in a relationship if you’re in a household together. Even if you’re approaching things from a different angle you can still kind of meet somewhere. And our kid might be really confused and fucked up. Who knows?

my test bowl of the pappa al pomodor, with some truffled salumi brought back from Florence

BAGEL WARS

MINTZ
You’ve created this downtown Jewish community. The focus of Makom is that it’s downtown in this setting where Jews used to live. And you’re so close to the Harbord bakery, where they make the best challah, the best. I mean, it’s so good. And you moved here from another country too.

KRAMER

And therefore we don’t think the challah is very good here. Or the bagels.

JUTRAS
Throwdown!

RABBI LEVY
So we’re going to be in the Star for denigrating the local Jewish community. Great, Miriam.

KRAMER

That was just me. That was off the record. [If I felt her life would be threatened by quoting her as saying that she doesn’t like Toronto’s bagels, I would have kept it off the record. Otherwise, it doesn’t work like that.] You guys don’t know how to make bagels.

MINTZ

I’m not gonna argue that at all.

JUTRAS
Oh, I’ll argue with that.

KRAMER

You’re not Jewish.

JUTRAS
Montreal bagels.

MINTZ
Torontonians are still Canadians. And Canadians have an allegiance to this Montreal bagel. I personally don’t care for it. And I do really like Montreal bagels. But I believe they’re only really good when they’re two minutes out of the oven. After that, they become pretzels.

JUTRAS
Mmmm. You toast them.

MINTZ
Well that’s a different thing. Personally, I like the big, fluffy twister bagel. I like it salty. It’s strange. Even though there’s a Toronto vs Montreal thing in our culture, when it comes to bagels, Canadians rally behind the Montreal bagel. I think because it’s something that they can get behind. To me, they’re almost two different things. Like if we were french, we would just have different names for these things. They wouldn’t both be called bagels.

RABBI LEVY

The Canadian ones would be called “round bread”.

MINTZ
You’re not going to win any friends in the Jewish community by coming here and insulting their bagels.

Date of publication: Saturday, January 29th, 2011